Mr. BARNES. Mr. Counsel, I invoke the first amendment to the Constitution, the fifth amendment to the Constitution, and the ninth and tenth amendments of the Constitution. Mr. KUNZIG. You decline to answer? Mr. BARNES. I decline to answer the question. Mr. KUNZIG. You were also identified by Dickson Hill, a former undercover agent of the FBI as a member of the Communist Party. Have you ever been a member of the Communist Party? (At this point Mr. Barnes conferred with Mr. Speiser.) Mr. BARNES. I decline to answer the question on the grounds previously stated. Mr. KUNZIG. Are you now a member of the Communist Party? Mr. BARNES. My answer is the same. Mr. KUNZIG. Did you ever know a Charles Blodgett? Mr. BARNES. The answer is as previously stated, I decline to answer. Mr. KUNZIG. Did you know Dickson Hill? Mr. BARNES. I decline to answer on the previously stated grounds. Mr. KUNZIG. No further questions, Mr. Chairman. Mr. VELDE. Mr. Jackson. Mr. JACKSON. No questions, Mr. Chairman. Mr. VELDE. Mr. Scherer. Mr. SCHERER. No questions. Mr. VELDE. Mr. Doyle. Mr. DOYLE. No questions. Mr. VELDE. Is there any reason why this witness should be further retained under subpena, Mr. Counsel? Mr. KUNZIG. No, sir. Mr. VELDE. The witness is dismissed, and call your next witness, please. Mr. KUNZIG. I call Mr. Paul Chown. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully request that we have the committee investigators and the police institute an immediate search for Mr. Chown. He has been around here quite sometime. It is rather interesting that he is not present now. Mr. VELDE. That request is certainly granted. Do you have another witness to call? Mr. KUNZIG. I would appreciate very much if you would see if Mr. Chown is around. He made plenty of speeches out front. Joy Williams, please. Mr. VELDE. In the testimony you are about to give before this subcommittee do you solemnly swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? Mrs. WILLIAMS. I do. TESTIMONY OF JOY WILLIAMS, ACCOMPANIED BY HER COUNSEL, EDWARD NEWMAN Mr. KUNZIG. Mrs. Williams, will you please state your full name for the record? Mrs. WILLIAMS. My name is Joy Williams. Mr. KUNZIG. Would counsel please identify himself for the record? Mr. NEWMAN. My office address is at 967 B as in "Baker" Street in Hayward. Mr. KUNZIG. Mrs. Williams, when and where were you born? Mr. KUNZIG. And when? Mrs. WILLIAMS. 1913. Mr. KUNZIG. What is your present address, please? Mrs. WILLIAMS. I live in Oakland. Mr. KUNZIG. And at what address in Oakland? Mrs. WILLIAMS. 5646 Marywood Drive. Mr. KUNZIG. I wonder if you could perhaps move just a little closer to that microphone. It is very difficult to hear. Are you employed, Mrs. Williams? (At this point Mrs. Williams conferred with Mr. Newman.) Mrs. WILLIAMS. I would like to make my position clear before this committee. I think perhaps it would save the committee time, and I would sincerely like to be as little misunderstood as possible. The question is, am I employed? Mr. KUNZIG. Yes. Mrs. WILLIAMS. As I have already stated, I was born in Oakland, Calif., and I have always been very proud of that citizenship with which I was born, and of the Constitution of the United States and the rights that it guarantees its citizens, including me, and I have felt all my life very strongly on the question of freedom of speech and the right of people to peacefully assemble, the freedom from Mr. VELDE. May I interrupt and say this, that if you are proud of your citizenship, would you be helpful to this committee and tell this committee whether or not you are employed at the present time? Mrs. WILLIAMS. Yes, I am coming to that. It is part of the question that I am answering, and I will be very brief, and I think in the long run it will save the committee time on this question. I am answering it. On the question of my beliefs and my sincere confidence which has been growing, in the necessity for defending this Constitution, and particularly the first and fifth amendments, I feel it is my duty as a citizen to defend it. I look upon this questioning this way, and this is why I must decline to answer questions about my beliefs, and in the future, if you should ask me any, other people's beliefs and speculate on these matters, and I claim Mr. VELDE. The request as to the matter of your employment has nothing to do with your beliefs Mrs. WILLIAMS. Of course this is a very difficult thing to think through completely, but I think the question of whether or not I am employed-I claim the fifth amendment on this. Mr. VELDE. Let me ask you, are you a member of the Communist Party? (At this point Mrs. Williams conferred with Mr. Newman.) Mrs. WILLIAMS. There are two questions before me. I was just finishing answering the one on employment. Mr. VELDE. The other question has been retracted and stricken from the record. Mrs. WILLIAMS. It has? Mr. VELDE. By the order of the Chair. The question now pending is, Are you a member of the Communist Party at the present time? Mrs. WILLIAMS. This is included in my previous remarks. I must answer such a question by appealing to the fifth amendment and my rights to not say anything which might be construed as incriminating me. Mr. VELDE. Have you ever been a member of the Communist Party? Mrs. WILLIAMS. This is the same kind of question, and I must rely on my rights under the fifth amendment. Mr. JACKSON. Let me make this clear, you are under no compulsion. You say you must rely on it. Do you so rely? Do you decline to answer the question on the grounds of the fifth amendment? (At this point Mrs. Williams conferred with Mr. Newman,) Mrs. WILLIAMS. Yes, I decline on the same grounds stated. Mr. JACKSON. Very well; thank you. Mr. VELDE. Do you have further questions, Mr. Jackson? Mr. VELDE. Mr. Scherer. Mr. SCHERER. No. Mr. VELDE. Mr. Doyle. Mr. DOYLE. No. Mr. VELDE. Is there any reason why this witness should be retained under subpena? Mr. KUNZIG. No, sir. Mr. VELDE. If not, the witness is dismissed, and you may call your next witness. Mr. KUNZIG. Doug Ward, W-a-r-d. Mr. VELDE. In the testimony you are about to give before this subcommittee, do you solemnly swear that you will tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? Mr. WARD. I do. TESTIMONY OF DOUGLAS WHITNEY WARD, ACCOMPANIED BY HIS COUNSEL, LAWRENCE SPEISER Mr. KUNZIG. Would you state your full name, please, for the record? Mr. WARD. My name is Douglas Whitney Ward. Mr. KUNZIG. Let the record show that Mr. Speiser is again attorney. We recognize him as counsel previously for other witnesses here today. Mr. Ward, what is your present address, sir? Mr. WARD. 827 16th Street, Sparks, Nev. Mr. KUNZIG. When and where were you born, Mr. Ward? Mr. WARD. I was born in Fort Scott, Kans., on the 28th day of October in 1910. Mr. KUNZIG. Where are you presently employed, sir? (At this point Mr. Ward conferred with Mr. Speiser.) Mr. WARD. I wish to decline to answer that question, Mr. Counsel, on the grounds of the first and fifth amendment, and to state at the same time that I propose to refuse on the same grounds to answer any other questions concerning employment. Mr. JACKSON. Mr. Chairman, the witness states that he wishes to decline. Does he so decline to answer? Mr. WARD. I do, yes, sir. Mr. JACKSON. Thank you. Mr. KUNZIG. In order then to get the record straight, Mr. Chairman, I wish to ask this question in this way: Are you presently employed by the Southern Pacific Railroad in Sparks, Nev.? Mr. WARD. Same answer, Mr. Counsel. Mr. KUNZIG. You refuse to answer that question upon the grounds that to answer where you are employed might incriminate you? Mr. WARD. Yes, sir; that is correct. Mr. KUNZIG. Working for the Southern Pacific Railroad can be incriminating? Mr. WARD. I will stand on my previous answer. Mr. KUNZIG. Now, you were identified as a former Communist Party member during testimony yesterday by Charles Blodgett. Have you ever been, Mr. Ward, a member of the Communist Party? Mr. WARD. I decline to answer that question, also, Mr. Counsel, on the same grounds. Mr. KUNZIG. Are you now a member of the Communist Party? Mr. KUNZIG. Were you a member of the Communist Party in 1952? (At this point Mr. Ward conferred with Mr. Speiser.) Mr. KUNZIG. You can save a little time if you will give us the dates because you must know I am going through them all. Mr. WARD. At this time, Mr. Counsel, I wish to decline to answer that question on the grounds of the first and fifth amendments, and I do intend also to refuse on the same grounds to answer any other questions about political affiliations or associations. Mr. JACKSON. You say you wish to decline. Do you so decline? Mr. WARD. I do. Mr. KUNZIG. Let me get this straight. You say that you are not now a member of the Communist Party, but when asked whether you were a member of the Communist Party in 1952, you refused to answer; is that correct? Mr. WARD. Mr. Counsel, I am sorry that I don't remember exactly how the original question about that that you asked me was phrased, but if you will repeat the original question that I— Mr. KUNZIG. I think the record stands clear for itself. Were you a member of the Communist Party yesterday? (At this point Mr. Ward conferred with Mr. Speiser.) Mr. WARD. Well, that, Mr. Counsel, I think is the same type of question that I declined to answer before, and consequently I must now decline to answer that question also on the grounds previously stated. Mr. KUNZIG. So that we are to understand that you are not now a member of the Communist Party, but as to whether you were a member of the Communist Party yesterday you refuse to answer on the grounds of the fifth amendment, is that right? (At this point Mr. Ward conferred with Mr. Speiser.) Mr. WARD. I stand on my previous answer. Mr. KUNZIG. Just let me ask one further question. Do you know Charles Blodgett? Mr. WARD. I will decline to answer that question also, Mr. Counsel, on the grounds of the first and fifth amendments and in so doing state my intention of similarly declining to answer any other questions about associations with persons. 41002-54-pt. 4- -5 Mr. KUNZIG. Then let us get away from persons and ask you: Have you ever been a member of any group seeking to overthrow the Government of the United States by force and violence? (At this point Mr. Ward conferred with Mr. Speiser.) Mr. WARD. I will decline to answer that question also on the same grounds. Mr. KUNZIG. One further question: Have you ever been political editor of the Peoples World, a newspaper here in this county? Mr. WARD. Well, that, I believe, Mr. Counsel, is a matter of associations, and since I have already stated my intention to do so, I will reiterate at this time that I decline to answer that question on the grounds of the first and fifth amendments. Mr. KUNZIG. No further questions, Mr. Chairman. Mr. VELDE. That might, in your opinion, be a matter of association, but it has to do with your employment also. I want the record to show at this point, at the suggestion of the gentleman from California, Mr. Doyle, that the committee has a duty imposed upon it to ascertain the extent of infiltration and subversion, particularly at the present time, of the Communist Party into various fields of employment. The reason that you are asked concerning your employment is to enable this committee to determine the extent of infiltration of subversive activities into the various industries, various fields of employment. Do you have a question, Mr. Jackson? Mr. JACKSON. No questions, Mr. Chairman. Mr. VELDE. Mr. Scherer. Mr. SCHERER. No questions. Mr. VELDE. Mr. Doyle. Mr. DOYLE. I wish to say to the gentleman that I am assuming that you have withdrawn from the Communist Party in utmost good faith and because you are opposed to its teachings. On that assumption, therefore, I wish to urge you to now be at least as active against the teachings of the Communist Party as I assume you were when you were a member of it. I am inferring from your testimony that there was a time when you were a member of it. Mr. WARD. I don't believe that is a reasonable inference, Mr. Doyle. Mr. DOYLE. Well, I wanted to state frankly to you that to me it is a reasonable inference. If I am an unreasonable man in that particular, then I will have to stand as unreasonable on that point, but I wanted you to be aware of the fact that I infer from the nature of your testimony that while you are not a Communist today, you may have been a week from today, but whatever the fact is, you know, and I therefore want to urge you, as I do quite frequently any man who ever was a Communist, to be at least as active against the teachings of the Communist Party, you having withdrawn from the party or not today being a member, again on the assumption that you were a Communist, as when you were a member of the party. I don't mean to discredit your testimony at all, sir. I just am inferring that there was a time when you were a Communist Party member, and I therefore want to urge you to be as active against the teachings of the Communist Party from now on as perhaps you were in favor of the teachings of the Communist Party if and when you were a member of that party. |