Mr. VELDE. Mr. Counsel, is there any reason why this witness should be further retained under subpena? Mr. KUNZIG. No, sir. Mr. VELDE. If not, the witness is dismissed, and you may call your next witness. Mr. KUNZIG. I wish to make an announcement to some of the witnesses who have suggested or given the impression that they are not going to accept witness fees. I wish, of course, to make it perfectly clear that under the laws and regulations they have every right to fees to which they are entitled, and they have only to step up here to the clerk and make the arrangements. That is there for every one of them. If they so decline or do not wish, that is their own action, of course. Mr. VELDE. Thank you, counsel, for making that observation. Mr. VELDE. In the testimony you are about to give before this subcommittee do you solemnly swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? Mr. ATTARIAN. I do. TESTIMONY OF ARAM ATTARIAN, ACCOMPANIED BY HIS COUNSEL, EDWARD NEWMAN Mr. KUNZIG. Mr. Attarian, would you state your full name for the record, please? (At this point Mr. Attarian conferred with Mr. Newman.) Mr. KUNZIG. And will you kindly spell it so we get it right? The witness is apparently conferring with counsel. Mr. ATTARIAN. I beg your pardon, will you repeat that, please? Mr. KUNZIG. Would you state your name, please, and spell it? Mr. ATTARIAN. Aram, A-r-a-m, Attarian, A-t-t-a-r-i-a-n. Mr. KUNZIG. Would counsel state his name again for the record? Mr. NEWMAN. My name is Edward Newman, Hayward, Calif. Will the committee counsel identify himself for the record? Mr. KUNZIG. I would be delighted to. I think the name is on the record. My name is Robert L. Kunzig, counsel for the House Committee of Un-American Activities, member of the bar of Philadelphia County. Mr. VELDE. Proceed. Mr. KUNZIG. Would the witness kindly give his address, please? Mr. ATTARIAN. 24622 Traynor Court, Hayward, Calif. Mr. KUNZIG. When and where were you born, Mr. Attarian? Mr. KUNZIG. Are you employed, sir? (At this point Mr. Attarian conferred with Mr. Newman.) Mr. ATTARIAN. May I ask a point of information before the questioning begins? I would like Mr. KUNZIG. Mr. Chairman, I have asked a very simple question: Is the witness employed, and if so, would he state where he is employed? Mr. VELDE. Yes, if the witness will answer the question you may explain your answer. Mr. ATTARIAN. I beg your pardon. Mr. VELDE. The question is very simple. If the witness will answer the question, then you might explain your answer, but until you do answer the question the committee cannot reasonably Mr. ATTARIAN. Well, I want to discover whether I have the privilege of asking a point of order. In other words, before the first question is asked, before these questions are asked, I would like to know Mr. VELDE. Mr. Witness, you have been subpenaed here, have you not? Mr. ATTARIAN. Yes. Mr. VELDE. You have been subpenaed as a witness who might possibly have some information concerning subversive activities. Your capacity now is as a witness who can give information to this committee, not to ask questions of the committee. Now, will you please answer the question that is proposed to you by counsel? Mr. ATTARIAN. Proceed. Mr. KUNZIG. I will ask you again: Are you presently employed, and if so, would you please state where? Mr. ATTARIAN. I refuse to answer this question on the grounds that my answer will tend to cause me to bear witness against myself under the provisions of the fifth amendment to the Constitution. Mr. KUNZIG. I will ask it this way, Mr. Chairman, so our record is straight: Are you employed by Perry's Studio, 9334 East 14th Street, Oakland, Calif.? Mr. ATTARIAN. I stand on my previous answer, refusal to answer, decline to answer on the grounds of the fifth amendment. Mr. KUNZIG. That employment by this Perry's Studio would tend to incriminate you? Mr. ATTARIAN. I stand on my previous answer. Mr. KUNZIG. Mr. Attarian, yesterday Mr. Blodgett, in testifying under oath before this committee, said that he had been a member of the Encinal Club of the Communist Party, and as a matter of fact he had been chairman of this unit. Now, particularly, Mr. Attarian, since this is a neighborhood unit, a group unit of the Communist Party, and since it was testified that you were also a member, we would like to ask you if you won't help and cooperate with this committee, tell us whether you were a member of that group of the Communist Party, and then tell about that unit, what you know about it? Mr. ATTARIAN. This questian appears to be a compounded question. Mr. KUNZIG. I will ask it first simply: Were you a member of the Encinal Club of the Communist Party? (At this point Mr. Attarian conferred with Mr. Newman.) Mr. ATTARIAN. I am going to answer this question, or decline to answer it, as I see fit Mr. KUNZIG. Would you please do so, then? Mr. ATTARIAN. I assume that I have a certain amount of privilege in answering this question in my own way; am I correct? Mr. JACKSON. After you answer it, you can explain your reasons for so answering it. Mr. ATTARIAN. I decline to answer the question for two reasons: One, it is not my intention to cooperate with this committee. My reasons for not wanting to cooperate are twofold: One, a very strong personal feeling; secondly, my rights under the fifth amendment to the Constitution. My personal feeling Mr. KUNZIG. Now, he answered, I believe, that he will not answer; he refused to answer on the grounds of the fifth amendment, that his answer may in some way tend to incriminate him. Mr. ATTARIAN. I didn't say that. Mr. KUNZIG. You are refusing to answer on the grounds of the fifth amendment; is that correct? Mr. ATTARIAN. That is what I said. Mr. KUNZIG. That is right. Mr. JACKSON. What portion of the fifth amendment are you relying on? (At this point Mr. Attarian conferred with Mr. Newman.) Mr. ATTARIAN. The entire portion of it. Mr. JACKSON. Are you also relying on that portion of it which deals with possible self-incrimination in a criminal action? (At this point Mr. Attarian conferred with Mr. Newman.) Mr. ATTARIAN. I am relying on the entire fifth amendment. Mr. JACKSON. Very well, you are standing on the whole amendment. Mr. KUNZIG. Have you ever been a member of the Communist Party, sir, at any time? (At this point Mr. Attarian conferred with Mr. Newman.) Mr. ATTARIAN. I also decline to answer this question on the previous grounds stated. Mr. KUNZIG. Are you now a member of the Communist Party? Mr. KUNZIG. Do you know Charles Blodgett? Mr. ATTARIAN. I decline to answer this question on the ground of the fifth amendment. Mr. KUNZIG. No further questions, Mr. Chairman. Mr. VELDE. Mr. Jackson. Mr. JACKSON. No, I have no questions. Mr. VELDE. Mr. Scherer. Mr. SCHERER. I have no questions. Mr. VELDE. Mr. Doyle. Mr. DOYLE. No questions. Mr. VELDE. Is there any reason why this witness should be further continued under subpena? Mr. KUNZIG. No, sir. Mr. VELDE. If not, the witness is dismissed. At this point I now appoint Mr. Doyle and Mr. Jackson as chairman of a subcommittee for the purposes of the continuing hearings. Mr. KUNZIG. Mr. Robert Black. (Representatives Harold H. Velde and Gordon H. Scherer left the hearing room at this time.) Mr. JACKSON. Do you solemnly swear in the testimony you are about to give to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? Mr. BLACK. I do. TESTIMONY OF ROBERT BLACK, ACCOMPANIED BY HIS COUNSEL, HUGH B. MILLER Mr. KUNZIG. Would you state your name, please, for the record? Mr. BLACK. My name is Robert Black. Mr. KUNZIG. Would counsel kindly state his name and office? Mr. MILLER. Hugh B. Miller, attorney at law, 1095 Market Street, San Francisco, Calif. Mr. KUNZIG. Mr. Black, would you give us your present address? Mr. BLACK. 1218 34th Avenue, Mr. KUNZIG. Where is that? Mr. BLACK. Oakland. Mr. KUNZIG. When and where were you born, Mr. Black? Mr. BLACK. I was born in Dundee, Scotland, January 12, 1915. Mr. KUNZIG. Are you presently a naturalized citizen? Mr. BLACK. I became a citizen through my father. Mr. KUNZIG. When did your father become a citizen, if you can recollect? Mr. BLACK. Around 1930, 1931. Mr. KUNZIG. Are you presently employed? (At this point Mr. Black conferred with Mr. Miller.) Mr. BLACK. Well, I am going to have to refuse to answer that question, and I have a number of reasons why. Mr. KUNZIG. Let us make it clear, you don't have to refuse. Mr. BLACK. I do refuse to answer that question for the reasons I am going to state now: First, on the grounds that this committee is violating my rights and the rights of all Americans which are guaranteed by the first amendment to the Constitution, that is, the right of association, the right to belong to organizations of one's own choosing, freedom to speak one's own mind, read books, magazines, newspapers, and so forth, the right to peaceful assembly to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. This committee is inquiring into a field where it has no right to legislate. Mr. JACKSON. Excuse me. Mr. BLACK. That is an area of opinions, ideas, and the like. Mr. JACKSON. A few notes. Would you furnish them to the committee at the conclusion of your testimony, sir? Mr. BLACK. Certainly. Mr. JACKSON. And if it develops to be a prepared statement, the committee will take it under its advisement as to the inclusion into the record in accordance with the rules of the committee. Mr. KUNZIG. Do you refuse to answer this question on the grounds of the fifth amendment? You are going to get to the fifth amendment eventually, so would you mention it if you desire to? (At this point Mr. Black conferred with Mr. Miller.) Mr. KUNZIG. The question is, Where are you employed? Mr. BLACK. I am refusing, and I insist on being able to give all my reasons for doing so. (Voluntary statement made by the witness was ordered stricken from the record by the chairman.) Therefore I invoke the fifth amendment and any other provisions of the Consti tution that will protect me and other American people from inquisitions. Mr. JACKSON. Is that the end of your statement, sir? Mr. JACKSON. May I have a copy of your statement? (At this point Mr. Black conferred with Mr. Miller.) Mr. JACKSON. Will the reporter please read back the statement made by the witness? (Whereupon the reporter read the statement.) Mr. JACKSON. That is sufficient. This is quite obviously a prepared statement, prepared in advance of the hearings and read in violation of the rules of the committee. Rule 9 of the committee states: Any witness desiring to make a prepared or written statement for the record of proceedings in executive or public session shall file a copy of such statement for the counsel of the committee within a reasonable period of time in advance of the hearing at which the statement is to be presented. All such statements so received which are relevant and germane to the subject of the investigation may, upon approval at the conclusion of the testimony of the witness, by a majority vote of the committee or subcommittee members present, be inserted in the official transcript of the proceedings. Footnote: Statements which take the form of personal attacks by the witness upon the motives of the committee, the personal character of any Members of the Congress or of the committee staff in statements clearly in the nature of accusation are not deemed to be relevant nor germane. In light of that and in light of the fact that this is quite obviously a prepared statement, it will be received and considered for inclusion in the record. In the interim it will be stricken from the record. Mr. MILLER. May the record show what Congressmen and how many are present in the room at the present time? Mr. JACKSON. Yes. The full subcommittee of two appointed by the chairman before his departure is present, a subcommittee consisting of Congressman Doyle, Congressman Jackson, a duly constituted subcommittee of the House Committee on Un-American Activities under the rules of the House of Representatives. Proceed, Mr. Counsel. Mr. KUNZIG. Mr. Black, are you a printer for the Oakland Tribune? (At this point Mr. Black conferred with Mr. Miller.) Mr. BLACK. I think I have already answered that question, and if not, I want to make it clear that I am standing again on the same reason I gave. Mr. JACKSON. I think at this point I should point out to counsel that in answer to the first question, which was dealt with by this statement, that the last part of it dealt with the inclusion of the fifth amendment. I call that to counsel's attention for the protection of the witness because in striking this, if it is not included by the committee action, it will have the effect of leaving no refusal on the first question answered. Mr. MILLER. I take it in striking the answer then you strike the question. Mr. JACKSON. I think perhaps you had better repeat the questions in order that the declinations may be entered in the record. Mr. KUNZIG. I will repeat the question. The first question was, are you presently employed? (At this point Mr. Black conferred with Mr. Miller.) |