Mr. BLACK. I thought I had answered the question, but if not, I refuse to answer on the grounds of the first and fifth amendments. Mr. KUNZIG. Now, the next question, and that is, are you employed as a printer for the Oakland Tribune?

Mr. BLACK. I refuse to answer that question for the same reasons. Mr. KUNZIG. May I ask, do you feel that employment by the Oakland Tribune incriminates you? It is difficult to see how employment by the Tribune would incriminate anyone.

Mr. BLACK. I don't think that my feelings are pertinent to the inquiry of this committee.

Mr. KUNZIG. But you refuse to answer as to whether you are employed by the Oakland Tribune because to do so might tend to incriminate you, is that right?

Mr. BLACK. I refuse to answer that question or any question regarding my employment, people whom I associate with or anything else under the grounds of the fifth amendment of the Constitution. Mr. KUNZIG. I have here, Mr. Chairman, the testimony taken in executive session before the House Committee on Un-American Activities, testimony of Bertha Grover, G-r-o-v-e-r, who under oath testified that she had worked as an undercover agent for the Federal Bureau of Investigation.

That was in the Communist Party, of course.

When asked the following question, her answer was given in this fashion:

Question. Will you identify for the committee people with whom you met as members of the Communist Party during your membership in the southwest Berkeley group?

Answer. Robert Black, Gladys Black; southwest Berkeley, Willie Laughery, Ozzo, O-z-z-o, Marrow. M-ar-r-o-w, Ray Thompson, Ray Halpern, H-a-l-p-e-r-n, Calvin Batiste, B-a-t-i-s-te, Marie Calloway, C-a-l-l-o-w-a-y, Warner Calloway, Fred Williams, Herb and Bernice Kalman.

Then she goes on and says,

No, Teresa, not Bernice. Andrew Mays, M-a-y-s, Freddie Walker, Frank Parsons, Katrina and Jack Manley. They were in that club, but I can't remember the person

Then as to the present witness, Robert Black, with regard to membership in the Southwest Berkeley Club of the Communist Party.

I ask you: Have you ever been a member of the Southwest Berkeley Club of the Communist Party?

Mr. BLACK. I have already stated I will not answer any questions regarding any associations I have had in the past or present, and I am invoking the first and fifth amendments again.

Mr. JACKSON. And decline to answer the question?

Mr. BLACK. And certainly decline to answer the question.

Mr. KUNZIG. The witness, Bertha Grover, then was asked further questions, and she answered

I was transferred to the Whitney Club, the Anita Whitney Club. Question. During your membership in the Anita Whitney Club will you identify those persons with whom you met as members of the Communist Party?

Answer. Robert Black, Gladys Black, Roger Capelle, C-a-p-e-l-l-e, Frances Capelle, Carl Hanson, Bernice Kalman, K-a-l-m-a-n, Eugene Kalman, Herb Kalman, Ted Kalman, Jim McFadden, Edith Sharpe, Leila Thompson, Gertrude Warwick, W-a-r-w-i-c-k, Dick Younce, Y-o-u-n-c-e, Nat Yanish, Ann Yanish, Ruth McGovney May of the southwest Berkeley_group, Eleanor Smith, Joe Eisler, E-i-s-l-e-r, Marge Eisler, Elizabeth Barlow, B-a-r-l-o-w, Edward Barlow, Gertrude Warwick,

Hazel Peters, Dave Blodgett, Charlie Busk, B-u-s-k. Hazel Peters is the one who was out getting subscriptions for the National Guardian.

I now ask you, based upon this sworn testimony by an undercover agent for the Federal Bureau of Investigation, have you ever been a member of the Anita Whitney Club of the Communist Party? The committee will, of course, recall that Charles Blodgett testified yesterday

(At this point Mr. Black conferred with Mr. Miller.)

Mr. KUNZIG (continuing). That this witness was a member of the Anita Whitney Club.

Mr. BLACK. I have already given the reasons to refuse to answer that question. I stand on the fifth amendment.

Mr. KUNZIG. I have two more questions. Have you ever been a member of the Communist Party, any group whatsoever, at any time? Mr. BLACK. I refuse to answer for the same reasons.

Mr. KUNZIG. Are you now a member of the Communist Party?
Mr. BLACK. Same reasons; same answer.

Mr. KUNZIG. No further questions, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. JACKSON. Mr. Doyle.

Mr. DOYLE. No questions.

Mr. JACKSON. Is there any reason why the witness should not be excused?

Mr. KUNZIG. No, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. JACKSON. The witness is excused.

Mr. KUNZIG. Bernice Kalman.

Is Bernice Kalman in the room? If so, would she please come forward?

Miss KALMAN. Before being sworn, I would like to tell you that my attorney is not here at present. He was unable to come this morning, and he must have misunderstood the directions. He is not here, and I would like to be represented by counsel.

Mr. JACKSON. Very well. Under the circumstances I think this should be set over until either this afternoon or tomorrow.

Mr. KUNZIG. Can you be back this afternoon, Miss Kalman?
Miss KALMAN. Yes; I will.

Mr. KUNZIG. Postpone this for the moment because counsel is not present. Will your counsel be able to be present this afternoon? Miss KALMAN. I think he will.

Mr. JACKSON, Will you make an effort to get in touch with him? Miss KALMAN. I will try.

Mr. JACKSON. Thank you. Call your next witness, Mr. Counsel. Mr. KUNZIG. Marjorie Canright.

Mr. JACKSON. Will an officer check in the hallway to see if the witness is here?

Mrs. ROBERSON. The witness has asked me to inform the committee that her attorney, Mr. Brodsky, expected her to be called this afternoon.

Mr. JACKSON. Would you kindly identify yourself?

Mrs. ROBERSON. I am Doris Brin Walker, attorney at law.
Mr. JACKSON. And her lawyer?

Mrs. ROBERSON. Her lawyer is Mr. Brodsky, and I believe that he was informed by Mr. Tavenner or this gentleman that Mrs. Canright would be called this afternoon.

Mr. JACKSON. I see.

Mr. KUNZIG. We will gladly put it off until this afternoon if counsel cannot be present.

Mr. JACKSON. Will you please be back at 2 o'clock this afternoon. Mr. KUNZIG. Doris Walker Roberson.

Mr. JACKSON. Do you solemnly swear in the testimony you are about to give to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, sọ help you God?

Mrs. ROBERSON. I do.

TESTIMONY OF DORIS BRIN WALKER ROBERSON, ACCOMPANIED BY HER COUNSEL, GEORGE OLSHAUSEN

Mr. KUNZIG. Would you state your name, please?

Mrs. ROBERSON. The name under which I practice law is Doris Brin Walker. I was widowed in 1951 and remarried last year. As a result of that marriage my married name is now Roberson, D-o-r-i-s B-r-i-n W-a-l-k-e-r R-o-b-e-r-s-o-n.

May I inquire your name again, please, counsel? I didn't get it the first time.

Mr. KUNZIG. My name is Robert L. Kunzig, K-u-n-z-i-g, counsel for the committee, member of the bar of Philadelphia County, Pa. Mrs. ROBERSON. Thank you, Mr. Kunzig.

Mr. KUNZIG. All right. Now, Mrs. Roberson, would you please state your address?

Mrs. ROBERSON. 1268 Clayton Street, San Francisco.

Mr. KUNZIG. And you are a member of the bar of San Francisco County?

Mrs. ROBERSON. Yes, I am.

Mr. KUNZIG. When were you born, Mrs. Roberson?

Mrs. ROBERSON. I was born in Dallas, Tex., on April 29, 1919.

Mr. KUNZIG. There was testimony under oath before this committee by Mr. Hill the other day that he knew you as a member of the Communist Party.

Mrs. ROBERSON. May I delay my answer until this photographer finishes? I can't see, to tell you the truth, because of the flashbulbs.

Mr. Kunzig, may I point out that I have been rather more fortunate than Mr. Treuhaft. After asking four lawyers to represent me, I was fortunate enough to obtain extremely competent counsel, and I would like my counsel to be on the record.

Mr. KUNZIG. Yes, would counsel please identify himself?
Mr. OLSHAUSEN. George Olshausen, O-l-s-h-a-u-s-e-n.

Mr. KUNZIG. And your office address?

Mr. OLSHAUSEN. I have no office.

Mr. KUNZIG. Of what county are you a member of the bar?
Mr. OLSHAUSEN. San Francisco.

Mr. KUNZIG. Thank you, sir.

Have you ever been a member of the Communist Party, is the question.

Mrs. ROBERSON. Which is the question, Mr. Kunzig?

Mr. KUNZIG. I will ask you: Have you ever been a member of the Communist Party?

Mrs. ROBERSON. You know, it is very interesting, Mr. Kunzig. I was present during Mr. Hill's testimony and listened with great interest. I wonder if you noticed that he identified my name or a portion of my name, Doris Walker Roberson, as some person he knew during the period he said he was in the Communist Party; that is, the period 1945-49. As I just got through informing the committee, my name did not become Roberson until 1952.

Mr. JACKSON. That is hardly responsive to the question. a question pending.

There is

Mrs. ROBERSON. I see no real reason why I should match my veracity against a witness who claims he knew me under a name that I didn't have for a period of some 3 to 7 years before I had it.

Mr. JACKSON. Very well. All that is necessary is for you to state that the identification is false.

Mrs. ROBERSON. I don't intend to match my veracity with a witness of the caliber of Dickson Hill, a man who not only testified he knew me under a name I didn't have, but who had to be led through practically all of the testimony that he did give.

Mr. KUNZIG. Then I will just

Mrs. ROBERSON. A practice frowned on by the courts, incidentally. Mr. KUNZIG. I will ask you a very simple question once again which obviously you will probably not answer. Have you ever been a member of the Communist Party?

Mrs. ROBERSON. Mr. Kunzig, and members of the committee, in view of the announced purpose of this committee and in view of the kind of testimony that we have had here the last few days, particularly yesterday, I wouldn't tell this committee if I was a member of the Republican or Democratic Parties.

Mr. JACKSON. The committee is not asking you about your political affiliation. We are asking you whether or not you were ever a member of an international conspiracy which seeks the destruction of this country. It is quite a different thing, and I wish you would answer. Do you decline to answer the question now pending?

Mrs. ROBERSON. Oh, yes, I do-Mr. Jackson, it is? Yes, I definitely do, Mr. Jackson.

Mr. JACKSON. And upon what grounds?

Mrs. ROBERSON. Well, I have a number of grounds.

Mr. JACKSON. Very well.

Mrs. ROBERSON. Are you an attorney, Mr. Jackson?

Mr. JACKSON. No, I am not.

Mrs. ROBERSON. Well, Mr. Kunzig, as an attorney, will recognize the importance of stating all of the legal grounds for a position. Mr. JACKSON. Yes, they are important. Let us get to them. Mrs. ROBERSON. I will; I will state my legal grounds.

Mr. KUNZIG. Would you, just for the sake of variety, state the fifth amendment first instead of last?

Mrs. ROBERSON. I think I will state them in the order in which I have prepared myself to state them. Of course, I knew that this question would be asked.

Mr. KUNZIG. Oh, you did?

Mrs. ROBERSON. I prepared myself in somewhat the same manner that a lawyer prepares himself for a legal argument.

Mr. JACKSON. Very well. Mr. Counsel, let the witness proceed to give her answer.

Mrs. ROBERSON. First of all, article I of the Constitution assigns to the Congress the legislative function of government. As you know, article II assigns the executive function to the executive branch of government; and article III assigns the judicial function to the judiciary.

Under article I the Congress and committees like this one are limited to legislative functions. This committee has already announced that its function is not legislative, when, in the statement that a spokesman for the committee made to the San Francisco Examiner on November 2, the committee stated that its purpose was to identify and in effect isolate or, I believe the phrase was, leave high and dry the hundred top Communists in this area.

I gather from this that the purpose of the committee is to dictate to the people of the Bay area with whom to associate and whom to ostracize, and this is not

Mr. JACKSON. Again your assumptions are not legal reasons.

Mrs. ROBERSON. This is not a legislative function, Mr. Jackson.

Mr. JACKSON. One does not have to be an attorney to know that the reasons you are giving are not legal reasons. They are opinions of your own; they are assumptions that you have made.

Mrs. ROBERSON. That isn't true, Mr. Jackson.

Mr. JACKSON. Will you proceed.

Mrs. ROBERSON. I heard Mr. Kunzig ask Mr. Black, I believe it was one of the earlier witnesses a moment or so ago-what his occupation was, and when Mr. Black refused to answer, invoking the fifth amendment as he had a legal right to do, Mr. Kunzig then asked him if it wasn't true that he was a printer employed by the Oakland Tribune.

Now, if that isn't an attempt to isolate and to do harm and grave personal injury to people in this area, I never heard one in my life, and that is not a legislative function, and it is one of the legal grounds for my refusing to answer this question.

Mr. JACKSON. Very well, you are-

Mrs. ROBERSON. I have other legal grounds.

Mr. JACKSON. Very well; if you will state your legal grounds for answering and not your assumptions

Mrs. ROBERSON. I intend to do so. The first ground was legal, and it was certainly not an assumption.

It is clear to me in this regard, by the way, that your purpose in bringing me here is certainly not to further any proposed legislation that may or may not come from this committee; I believe the record will show that this committee has proposed no legislation which has been adopted, but rather

Mr. KUNZIG. Mr. Chairman, just a minute. Let us get some facts before this committee. There is a law of 1950, the present law of this land, the Internal Security Act of 1950, which was based upon years of study in this committee.

Mr. JACKSON. The Smith Act, of which the Communists are so fond, came in large part out of the legislative recommendations of this committee, so if your other assumptions are as ill-founded as your last statement, it would be very helpful if you would proceed to those