Mr. DOYLE. Well, now, as I stated, if you really haven't thought it through, I don't want to urge you to answer it because it is a difficult question. You know, for instance, that J. Edgar Hoover says "No." If you don't know that, I want you to know that that is his public statement. Have you any suggestion on it, or would you rather not answer it? Mr. AMES. I would rather not answer it. Mr. DOYLE. Very well. Mr. KUNZIG. Mr. Chairman, I want to make sure the record is clear that this witness was a Communist by direction of the Government and worked for the Federal Bureau of Investigation. I want to be sure that is clear. Mr. VELDE. Certainly. I would just like to ask one question, if you have any opinion or if you can estimate the number of active Communist Party members in the east bay area in the year 1951. Mr. AMES. The nearest association I had with them from the fringe, I would estimate to my knowledge about 150. Mr. VELDE. Mr. Ames, the committee certainly thanks you for the patriotic work which you have done, both as an undercover agent for the FBI and for coming here to be a witness before this committee and giving us the valuable information which you have, which certainly should help us in considering and passing remedial legislation to handle the problem of the Soviet conspiracy. With the thanks of the committee Mr. KUNZIG. Mr. Chairman, we should like to keep this witness under subpena for the present. Mr. VELDE. The witness will be kept under subpena at the present time until further notified. You are dismissed at this time with the committee's thanks. Mr. KUNZIG. Mr. Charles Duarte. Mr. VELDE. In the testimony you are about to give before this subcommittee do you solemnly swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? Mr. DUARTE. I do. TESTIMONY OF CHARLES ALFRED DUARTE, ACCOMPANIED BY HIS COUNSEL, RICHARD GLADSTEIN Mr. KUNZIG. Would you please state your full name for the record? Mr. DUARTE. Charles Alfred Duarte. Mr. KUNZIG. Would you spell it for the stenographer? Mr. DUARTE. D-u-a-r-t-e. Mr. KUNZIG. Would counsel please state his name and office address for the record? Mr. GLADSTEIN. My name is Richard Gladstein, 240 Montgomery, San Francisco. Mr. KUNZIG. Mr. Duarte, when and where were you born? Mr. DUARTE. Oakland, Calif., August 26, 1912. Mr. KUNZIG. Your present address is what? Mr. KUNZIG. Where are you employed, sir? Mr. DUARTE. The committee knows where I am employed, Mr. Counsel. The committee subpenaed me as "You are hereby commanded to" Mr. KUNZIG. Your answer Mr. DUARTE, Charles Duarte, president, Local 6, ILWU. Mr. KUNZIG. Then your answer is that you are president of Local 6, ILWU, is that correct? Mr. DUARTE. And was subpenaed as such, and the committee knows it. Mr. KUNZIG. We want to get it on the record. Mr. DUARTE. The committee was correct, and I was subpenaed. Mr. KUNZIG. All right. Mr. Duarte, there was testimony before this committee by Mr. Rosser a few days ago as follows (At this point Mr. Duarte conferred with Mr. Gladstein.) Mr. KUNZIG. Mr. Rosser said: There is a person that I worked with in the warehouseman's union by the name of Duarte who came down to L. A. QUESTION. Will you spell the name, please? Mr. SCHERER. Just a minute. Mr. Counsel, the witness can't hear what you are saying. He is listening to his counsel. Mr. VELDE. Does the witness want to advise with his counsel? (At this point Mr. Duarte conferred with Mr. Gladstein.) Mr. DUARTE. I am sorry. Mr. KUNZIG (continuing to read :) QUESTION. Will you spell the name, please? ANSWER. I think it is D-u-a-r-t-e. I worked with him; I know him as a member of the Communist Party. I have been in meetings with him. QUESTION. Do you know his first name? ANSWER. I have forgotten his first name. Question. Can you identify him more specifically? Answer. Well, he was an organizer when I met him for the International Warehousemen's Union, and he later became one of the top leaders of the warehousemen's union. I don't know what he is doing now. Question. Do you know what nickname he was known by? Question. What was the date upon which you became acquainted with him and knew him to be a member of the Communist Party? Answer. It was in 1943; 1943 and then in 1944. Question. Do you know where he resided? Answer. I don't know whether he resided in Frisco or Oakland. Question. Can you give any further identifying information regarding him? Answer. Well, I was introduced to him by one of the wheelhorses of the Communist Party in the warehousemen's union named Dawson; I can't think of his first name, but he was one of the beginners of the Communist fraction of the warehousemen's union, and he is the one who introduced me to him. Let me ask, Mr. Duarte, are you known in addition to Charles Duarte by the name of Chili? (At this point Mr. Duarte conferred with Mr. Gladstein.) Mr. DUARTE. Yes. Mr. KUNZIG. Are you the Charles "Chili" Duarte mentioned in the testimony by Mr. Rosser? (At this point Mr. Duarte conferred with Mr. Gladstein.) Mr. DUARTE. Mr. Chairman, there are a lot of people named Rosser. Are you referring to the Rosser who has a police record in Los Angeles? Mr. KUNZIG. I am referring, Mr. Duarte, to the Rosser who testified here Mr. DUARTE. I am trying to identify-you asked me, Mr. Counsel. I am asking you if this is the Mr. Rosser who has a long police record in Los Angeles. Is this the Rosser you referred to? Mr. KUNZIG. I am referring to the Mr. Rosser who testified here a few days ago. I believe you know the testimony. (At this point Mr. Duarte conferred with Mr. Gladstein.) Mr. SCHERER. Mr. Chairman, I think again we should caution counsel. A number of counsel have been doing it repeatedly, putting into the witness' mouth the answer that he should give. The job of the counsel in this case is to advise the witness as to his legal rights and not to testify for him. Mr. VELDE. The suggestion is certainly well taken. Mr. SCHERER. And it would be well for the bar association of this county to check into the conduct of some of the counsel who have appeared before this committee during the last 4 days. Mr. DUARTE. Mr. Chairman, I would like to answer, if I might. Mr. Congressman-I don't know your name. Mr. SCHERER. Scherer from Ohio. Mr. DUARTE. Thank you. Mr. VELDE. I would suggest to the committee counsel that the question be withdrawn, and I would like to ask this question: Is the testimony which has just been read inaccurate in any respect? (At this point Mr. Duarte conferred with Mr. Gladstein.) Mr. DUARTE. Well, this could have to be broken down, Mr. Chairman. I want to go back to what the Congressman said. I thought I was entitled to counsel here. I want to know Mr. VELDE. Let us break it down this way: Have you ever been a member of the Communist Party? (At this point Mr. Duarte conferred with Mr. Gladstein.) Mr. DUARTE. Mr. Chairman, since you are not allowing me to answer questions, I respectfully-let me preface it. I want to state that as an American that I recognize that this committee is a duly authorized committee of the House of Representatives and has certain powers and duties, and I respect those powers and duties, but this committee should recognize that as an American I have certain rights and privileges. Mr. VELDE. The committee certainly does recognize that. Mr. DUARTE. Based on those rights and privileges I respectfully decline to answer that question. I want to tell you my reasons why, based on the fifth amendment. After seeing what can be done to a man-and I pick one specifically, Robert Condon, a Congressman— I am not going to run the risk Mr. VELDE. That is not a subject matter before you. There is no question pending about him. The question was about you and your past conduct. You have refused to answer that question on the basis of the fifth amendment. Now, may I ask you, are you presently a member of the Communist Party? Mr. DUARTE. Same answer, same grounds, but I want to make clear, Mr. Chairman Mr. VELDE. Is there any reason why this witness should further be retained? Mr. KUNZIG. No, sir, no further questions. Mr. DUARTE. Just a minute. Mr. VELDE. Any questions, Mr. Doyle? Mr. DOYLE. No questions. Mr. DUARTE. I thought that the Congressman made the statement that if you answered the question, took the fifth amendment in good faith, you would get some courtesy here. Mr. VELDE. The witness is dismissed, and I would hesitate to have you removed, Mr. Witness. (At this point Mr. Duarte conferred with Mr. Gladstein.) Mr. KUNZIG. I have no further witnesses today, Mr. Chairman. Mr. GLADSTEIN. Mr. Chairman, when you say "dismissed," do you mean he is excused? Mr. VELDE. Excused. Mr. KUNZIG. I have no further witnesses. Mr. DUARTE. What do I do with the second subpena? I have been subpenaed twice, Mr. Counsel. Mr. KUNZIG. No further witnesses, Mr. Chairman. Mr. VELDE. The witness has been excused. Mr. DUARTE. I just asked, Mr. Chairman, because I was subpenaed twice. I thought I was going to come back on the next one. I have two subpenas. Mr. SCHERER. I move we adjourn. Mr. VELDE. At this time the committee will stand in adjournment until 9:30 tomorrow morning. (Whereupon, at 4:10 p. m., the hearing was recessed, until 9:30 a. m., Saturday, December 5, 1953.) |