It started with his checking up on my articles, but when the break came it was more or less the question of my attitude toward the criticism. Question. What was the result of this criticism? Answer. I was told to get lost. Question. Did you get lost? Answer. Yes, I did. Question. Did that end your propaganda work for the Communist Party on the west coast? Answer. It did for over a year. I got completley lost. I didn't even try to look at anything communistic. I was sick and tired of the whole thing at that time. Then as far as the rest of his testimony is concerned, it doesn't relate to matters that I am interested in questioning you about, but in order that the story may be completed, a year later he was assigned to the publication in Japanese language of the history of communism in the Soviet Union. You have heard that testimony, Mr. George, and we are interested to find facts as to the method-first let us say as to the method, or as the witness said, as to the division of work in connection with the handling of this propaganda, how it was sent to Japan, by what method. Will you tell us that, please? (At this point Mr. George conferred with Mr. Speiser.) Mr. GEORGE. Well, it has been a very interesting recitation, but I don't see that under advice of counsel I can answer that question on the grounds of the first and the fifth amendments. Mr. TAVENNER. You say on the advice of counsel? Mr. GEORGE. Yes, sir. Mr. TAVENNER. Well, of course you should seek your counsel's advice, but the important thing here is not what your counsel says, but what you think. Are you contending in good faith that to answer the question might tend to incriminate you? Mr. GEORGE. Otherwise I wouldn't say so. Mr. TAVENNER. I want to make certain that is your idea. Mr. GEORGE. That is right. Mr. TAVENNER. If it is your idea, I cannot question you further about it. Mr. GEORGE. That is right. Mr. TAVENNER. Is it? Mr. GEORGE. It is. Mr. TAVENNER. I want to call to your attention other evidence that the committee has received. Prior to locating the witness, Mr. Koide, testimony was received in executive session in Los Angeles-and it has now been released-taken on December 22, 1952. The witness was Anne Kinney, K-i-n-n-e-y. Miss Kinney admitted her former Communist Party membership and told of her activities within the party. It is necessary that I base questions to you on her testimony, and so it is also necessary to read it to you. Mr. VELDE. May I confer with counsel? Mr. TAVENNER. Yes, sir. (At this point Mr. Velde conferred with Mr. Tavenner, and Mr. George conferred with Mr. Speiser.) Mr. TAVENNER. I am not certain just the date when this testimony was released and made public, but I have before me the printed release of the committee which is entitled "Investigation of Communist Activities in the Los Angeles Area, Part 5." Mr. VELDE. Proceed. Mr. TAVENNER. This is a question asked of Miss Kinney by Mr. Wheeler: From September 1934 to the fall of 1935 you stated you were a member at large. What is meant by the term "member at large"? Miss KINNEY. You are not attached to any branch of any sort. Mr. WHEELER. For what reason? Miss KINNEY. Because I was given a special assignment. Mr. WHEELER. In your opinion would you say that you were a member at large and not assigned to any group because of security reasons of the party? Miss KINNEY. I presume so. Mr. WHEELER. Were you assigned to any particular person? Miss KINNEY. Yes, to Harrison George. Mr. WHEELER. Will you further identify Mr. Harrison George? Miss KINNEY. Harrison George was apparently carrying out some special assignment which had to do with publishing what I think was a trade-union paper that was sent to Japan. I knew very little about it because all I was supposed to do was to pick up mail for him that was sent to various addresses and take it to him. Mr. WHEELER. Do you recall from whom you picked up the mail? Miss KINNEY. No, I don't. I never made the arrangements for the use of the addresses. I simply went and got the envelopes and took them to George. Mr. WHEELER. Do you recall any of the addresses where you picked up the envelopes? Miss KINNEY. No, I don't. Mr. WHEELER. Did you at any time acquire any knowledge as to what the envelopes contained? Miss KINNEY. No, I didn't, nor did I ever know where they came from. Mr. WHEELER. When assigned to Harrison George did you at any time have any knowledge of the branch of the party known as the Philippine committee? Miss KINNEY. No. Now, did Miss Kinney operate as a mail courier for you in connection with the publication of this magazine, pamphlet, of which we have been talking? (At this point Mr. George conferred with Mr. Speiser.) Mr. GEORGE. I decline to answer on the grounds of the fifth amend ment. Mr. TAVENNER. Will you tell the committee the purposes of the Communist Party in engaging in this propaganda activity? Mr. GEORGE. That is a leading question, it seems to me. Mr. TAVENNER. Yes, and I am leading purposely in the hopes that I may get an answer. Mr. GEORGE. Well, I decline to answer on the same grounds as previously stated. Mr. TAVENNER. Was the publication to which we have referred financed and directed by the Profintern? Mr. GEORGE. I decline to answer on the same grounds. Mr. TAVENNER. Mr. Chairman, it is apparent that the witness will not answer questions relating to this matter, so we will continue with the investigation. Mr. VELDE. Well, Mr. George, if you were engaged in an operation that was sponsored by the Soviet Union as has been mentioned in the testimony of two witnesses, don't you think it vital to the security of our country at the present time that you assist this committee with information that you must have so that we might pass legislation which would further protect the security of the American people? (At this point Mr. George conferred with Mr. Speiser.) Mr. GEORGE. Well, some of your question was a presumption. But I would say I don't think what I would say would have any bearing upon that thing. That is my opinion, and upon that opinion I base my declination to answer the question on the grounds of the fifth amendment as previously stated. Mr. SCHERER. What part of Mr. Velde's question was a presumption? Mr. GEORGE. The presumption that the publication of this thing was for the Soviet government. Mr. SCHERER. Who was it for? Mr. GEORGE. That is not for me to say, tion. Mr. SCHERER. Can you clear it up for us? Mr. VELDE. I believe you could clear it up for us, Mr. George, but apparently you are not going to assist this committee in any way. Do you have any further questions, Mr. Scherer? Mr. SCHERER. Did you ever receive any compensation, either directly or indirectly, from the Soviet Union? Mr. GEORGE. I think I better decline to answer on the grounds of the fifth amendment. Mr. SCHERER. Do you decline? Mr. GEORGE. I do so decline, yes. Mr. SCHERER. Did you ever receive any compensation directly or indirectly from the Communist Party? Mr. GEORGE. Same answer. Mr. SCHERER. I have no further questions. Mr. VELDE. Mr. Doyle. Mr. DOYLE. When our chairman asked you a minute ago about. whether or not the publication was at the instance of the Soviet Union, I understood your answer to indicate that you felt that was a presumption on his part. Did I so understand? Mr. GEORGE. That was my implication. Mr. SCHERER. I can't hear the witness. Mr. DOYLE. As long as you disagreed with his presumption, you tell us, please, in the interests of the national security of your own Nation, who it was as far as you know that was sponsoring the publication of this? Mr. GEORGE. I decline to answer on the grounds of the fifth amendment. Mr. SCHERER. Will you turn up the microphone for the witness? His fifth amendments are weak here. Mr. TAVENNER. One further question: Where do you reside, Mr. George? Mr. GEORGE. Los Angeles. Mr. TAVENNER. What address? Mr. GEORGE. Residence? 1923 East Fourth Street, zone 33. Mr. VELDE. What is your occupation at the present time? Mr. SCHERER. For whom? Mr. GEORGE. Well, it is in a commercial enterprise owned by a doctor in Los Angeles. Mr. SCHERER. You are not today employed by the Communist Party then? 41002-54-pt. 5-3 (At this point Mr. George conferred with Mr. Speiser.) (At this point Mr. George conferred with Mr. Speiser.) Mr. GEORGE. I decline to answer on the grounds of the fifth amend ment. Mr. VELDE. Mr. Counsel, is there any reason why this witness should be further retained under subpena? Mr. TAVENNER. No, sir. Mr. VELDE. If not, the witness is dismissed, and call your next witness, please. Mr. TAVENNER. Mr. Paul Chown. Mr. VELDE. In the testimony you are about to give before this subcommittee do you solemnly swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? Mr. CHOWN. I do. TESTIMONY OF PAUL CHOWN, ACCOMPANIED BY HIS COUNSEL, Mr. TAVENNER. What is your name, please, sir? Mr. TAVENNER. Are you accompanied by counsel? Mr. CHOWN. Yes, I am. Mr. TAVENNER. Will counsel please identify himself for the record! Mr. ANDERSEN. My name is George Andersen, attorney at law, 240 Montgomery Street. Mr. TAVENNER. When and where were you born, Mr. Chown? Mr. TAVENNER. What is your occupation? Mr. CHOWN. I am field organizer for the United Electrical, Radio and Machine Workers of America. Mr. TAVENNER. How long have you held that position? Mr. CHOWN. Approximately 3 years. Mr. TAVENNER. What was your employment prior to that? Mr. CHOWN. I would have to ask time to gather together all the information pertinent to that. Mr. TAVENNER. Well, let us see if you can recall what your employment was immediately before you took your position with the UE. (At this point Mr. Chown conferred with Mr. Andersen.) Mr. CHOWN. I was employed by the joint action committee of northern California local unions. Mr. TAVENNER. How long were you so employed? Mr. CHOWN. Oh, I believe it was 2 or 3 months. Mr. TAVENNER. That employment then was in 1949 as nearly as you can recall? Mr. CHOWN. 1950, I believe. Mr. TAVENNER. How were you employed in 1949-let us put it this way: I would like to know what your employment has been since 1945. (At this point Mr. Chown conferred with Mr. Andersen.) Mr. TAVENNER. Maybe it would be easier to begin there and come up rather than go back. But you may do it either way you like. (At this point Mr. Chown conferred with Mr. Andersen.) Mr. CHOWN. I have been in the trade union movement all of my adult life, and it would seem to me a lot easier if you asked me the particular organizations and the time you are interested in. Mr. TAVENNER. Well, it is from 1945 on up until the time I have mentioned, 1950. Mr. CHOWN. Well, any particular year, counsel? Mr. TAVENNER. Well, let us begin with 1945 and state what it is. (At this point Mr. Chown conferred with Mr. Andersen.) Mr. TAVENNER. If it will simplify it any Mr. ANDERSEN. Pardon me; we are consulting, if you don't mind. Mr. TAVENNER. Let me change the question, please, and then you can consult further. Mr. ANDERSEN. You want to withdraw it? Mr. TAVENNER. Let me ask you how you were employed in 1948. Maybe that will simplify it. (At this point Mr. Chown conferred with Mr. Andersen.) Mr. CHOWN. As best I can remember I was working for the Alameda CIO Council in 1948. As I said before, counsel, it would require my checking my records which I have at home as to the exact times of employment, months and dates and so forth. Mr. TAVENNER. How were you employed in 1947? Mr. CHOWN. In 1947 I worked for the, I believe, California CIO Council and the Alameda County CIO Council. Mr. TAVENNER. Mr. Charles David Blodgett testified that he was employed by the Daily People's World for a period of about 211⁄2 years covering the years of 1947, 1948, and up into 1949, so probably I should ask you also how you were employed in 1949 before closing the questions that I have in mind. Mr. CHOWN. I believe I was still employed by the Alameda County CIO Council in 1949. Mr. TAVENNER. He stated that during that period of time he was in attendance and required to attend under the directions of Lloyd Lehman, the county chairman of the Communist Party of Alameda County, the meetings of the Political Affairs Committee of the Communist Party, and he described to some extent the operations of that committee, although he says he was there merely as an observer. He has identified you in the testimony as one of the persons who attended those meetings, and it was during substantially the period that I have asked you about. The committee would like you to tell them just what activities that group engaged in and who took part in it, so let me ask you first: Did you meet with that group? (At this point Mr. Chown conferred with Mr. Andersen.) Mr. CHOWN. Well, in the first place, I was not present at the time this man you allege so testified did so, and I would not be willing to take the opinion of this committee as to what was said or what was not said by this Mr. Blodgett, and I would certainly like to be able to examine the transcript or have it read here in detail. Mr. TAVENNER. Well, you know the facts, and it wouldn't change the facts, regardless of what may be on the record as to what the witness said or my recollection of his testimony, so let me then put the question this way: Did you at any time attend a meeting of the Political Affairs Committee of the Communist Party of Alameda |