STATE MARINE SCHOOLS-ANALYSIS OF COST PER STUDENT PER YEAR, FISCAL YEAR 1960-68, INCLUSIVE, UNDER PUBLIC LAW 85-672-Continued

1 No graduation class in 1963, due to change from 3- to 4-year course.

* Includes $103 in uniform deposits not reported as income in previous years.

Notes: 1-Under the provisions of Public Law 85-672, effective July 1, 1959, Federal grant pay-
ments to State schools were increased from $25,000 to $75, 000 per annum. In addition, the subsistence
uniform and textbook allowances were increased from approximately $450 per student, per year
to $600 per student, per year. 2-This analysis, for fiscal years 1960 through 1962, is based on oper-
ating cost and sources of income figures verified by each of the superintendents of the several State

Marine schools. The figures for fiscal year 1963 were computed from reports submitted by the several
schools in support of the fiscal year 1964 vouchers for payment of grants to State schools. The figures
for fiscal years 1964 to 1968 were furnished by superintendents of the State Marine schools upon
written request of this office. 3-The Texas Maritime Academy, in its 6th year of existence, normally
will operate on a fiscal year beginning Sept. 1, and ending Aug. 31. However, the above figures cover
payments and operating cost for the period July 1, 1962, through June 30, 1968.

Admiral WILLIAMSON. I can tell the chairman right now that we have never received more than the $75,000. It is $25,000 plus $50,000 for taking students from out of the State. That amounts to $75,000, plus the $600 per student.

The only support fund we receive outside of the work done on the ship-those are all of them. We have had the ship, I might add, for 23 years, and up until last year, there was $75,000, or $72,000, set aside for each ship getting it ready for the cruise and docking the ship.

Our average was $62,000, and it was only last year that it was increased to $122,000, I think, because of the deterioration on the ship piping and so forth, after 23 years of hard service.

Mr. MURPHY. What type of ship is the Golden Bear?

Admiral WILLIAMSON. She is formerly a Navy ship. She is 425 feet long and about 7,000 tons, and she was built, of course, for the Navy by Kaiser shipbuilding during the war. She is a war-built ship. Of course, as a consequence her piping and all that-they were slapped in like spaghetti.

Mr. MURPHY. Do you have plans for a replacement vessel?

Admiral WILLIAMSON. We have been working very hard, Mr. Blackwell mentioned that we are trying to get a replacement, because we feel now that the Golden Bear must be replaced to be safe, and we have been allowed by the Coast Guard to run her 1 more year.

We have looked over the Pickaway, which is an AP-5 type, and we find that this is inadequate for training, because of the lack of space for students in the engine rooms and around the auxiliary equipment. The Pickaway was recommended to us by Marad, at the time she was in the Navy yard for an overhaul, when the Navy decided to scrap or decommission the ship, she was towed out of the Navy yard and taken to San Diego.

The repair bill for that ship would have been $1,400,000. We feel that the Crescent City, which is now in the reserve fleet, could be made into a very fine training ship, and it is our estimate that, doing the work with the midshipmen, it would cost the Government about $800.000. I believe the survey committee has come up with about $300,000 more than that, but we intend to do a lot of the work ourselves, which we have done on the Golden Bear. We even pulled the turbines on the Golden Bear, in order to save Federal funds.

Mr. MURPHY. Admiral, do you have any plans or any programs for graduate type of work, either oceanography or in other maritime fields?

Admiral WILLIAMSON. No, sir; not at the present time. Our mission is to train and educate officers for the operation of ships. Our program now is a 3-year program, and it is filled. We have no extra time in our curriculum to deal with special subjects, however, the State of California has several institutions that teach oceanography and hydrography.

Mr. MURPHY. Mr. Keith?

Mr. KEITH. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Admiral, I think you are something of a politician. You neglected to comment on my bill very favorably, and sort of ignored me. Perhaps you didn't want to say that you didn't really approve of my suggestion that we increase the subsidy to the individual student. Admiral WILLIAMSON. Not at all, Mr. Keith, and I apologize, but

it was the Board of Governors. I received my instructions from them at their last meeting, in correspondence to our legislators they had recommended the support of H.R. 8785. Your bill I might add that it offers nothing more or not as much, as the American Export and Isbrandtsen Line and the Brotherhood of Marine Engineers. They will give our students 3 year's tuition free and put them through the Academy if they promise to come and serve with them after they graduate.

For each year of work with them, they will cancel one year of tuition, or if they fail to go, then they just pay the money back at 5 percent interest as a loan.

Mr. KEITH. I see.

Admiral WILLIAMSON. With that, and the fact that the propeller clubs assist them also, a good many of our students are able to pay their own tuition. If we put too many clauses or hooks into it, they will decide not to use it. I don't think it would be compulsory, or would it?

Mr. KEITH. The shipping lines don't see anything wrong with getting a commitment to serve from the students in return for their subsidy. Is that correct?

Admiral WILLIAMSON. Well, it isn't really-they don't have to serve with them. They would like them to come and serve with them. This is a verbal understanding

Mr. KEITH. They would have to repay the loan at 5 percent if they don't serve.

Admiral WILLIAMSON. That is correct.

Mr. KEITH. So, the shipping companies are doing what we suggest Uncle Sam do.

Admiral WILLIAMSON. Yes; some of them don't need the support, you understand.

Mr. KEITH. I understand, but what we are trying to do here is to make it possible for the poor but nevertheless very competent student to go to a maritime academy. Supposing he would like to follow the sea, but he hasn't had a chance to go to Harvard or Dartmouth with a full scholarship. We lose that student, for which I think is one of the oldest and most honorable, most rewarding, most satisfying professions, just because he can get all of his tuition paid if he goes to a college that is very heavily endowed.

On the other hand, he can go and be indentured in a way to the shipping clients.

I gather in your response that you personally didn't necessarily agree with the Board of Trustees, you were just following their orders. You don't personally see anything wrong with a commitment to serve in return for a subsidy, do you?

Admiral WILLIAMSON. No, but I don't believe the majority of young men of this age know what they want to do. I worked in the Bureau of Navy Personnel for a good many years, and to measure the motivation of a young man to go to sea before he finds out what it is all about is a very hard thing. He can be the most dedicated young man in the world when he starts out, and after the first trip he gets seasick or something, or he gets on a ship, and it isn't very clean, it might be very hard to live on, he is just fed up.

Mr. KEITH. I have been through this seasick business, and I have

come ashore, and it wasn't very long after I had come ashore that I was ready to go back to sea again. If you have this fellow more or less committed to a 4-year course, he is going to respond, in my view, and if he doesn't, he still has an education at a very reasonable cost, and the amount he has to pay back is small in relation to the total cost of the education.

Admiral WILLIAMSON. Mr. Keith, I feel that I just can't go along with the comments that I have heard that these men aren't staying at sea, 3, 4, and 5 years. I have just read the percentages from 1965 to 1969, that shows they are doing this without having this ax over their head.

Mr. KEITH. You mentioned an ax over their head by the shipping companies. You said the Federal Government didn't need to subsidize them, because the shipping companies would take care of every student.

Admiral WILLIAMSON. I said that Isbrandtsen and one other company are offering this. I was just trying to show that this already is being offered freely from a shipping company. The Government is offering them $1,000. I have no objection to that, sir, but I don't think it is necessary. I think you are already subsidizing them.

Mr. KEITH. I think we could believe most anything we want from what we have got in the record so far. You do say that you are going to raise the cost per year to roughly $1,450 per student, $1,000 per year for care and subsistence and $450 for education?

Admiral WILLIAMSON. Are you looking at my catalog?

Mr. KEITH. I am looking at page 6 of your testimony. You mention the $1,000 per year and the $400 per year.

Admiral WILLIAMSON. I have to explain that to you. In the State of California, the Governor is very strong for tuition. The $450 would be for tuition, which is not allowed in the State of California at the present time. The Board did recommend the other support should be $1,000.

Mr. KEITH. If I read Governor Reagan rightly, in the social sciences and the bachelor of arts degrees that are given there in California, a kid can go to school and get a broad liberal education for nothing, or for little or nothing. He feels that these kids would appreciate that more if they paid for it.

Now, that is entirely different from going to sea, and following the sea as a trade, is it not? Wouldn't you say so?

Admiral WILLIAMSON. I don't quite see your point.

Mr. KEITH. My point is that Governor Reagan up there in the State Capital seeing all kids going to State education with no expenseAdmiral WILLIAMSON. Except paying for their quarters and food. Mr. KEITH. So he wants to get tuition from them so they will appreciate what they are getting. They are not really doing much more than learning in the field of social sicences. A broad liberal education. I think it is a lot different when you are following the sea; the average student at that age would be tempted to take a liberal arts education for free, or for a relatively small amount, rather than go to a maritime academy and live in a 23-year-old vessel and spend a lot of your time in maintenance and repair, and absent yourself from your friends at the lovely Carquinez Straits, go on a cruise and be away from your family.