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funds that we are currently investing in our merchant marine program and the amounts that we want to expend in the future.

So, to get to the point, I discussed the policy of a new merchant marine program with the young men as they graduated, and what we were doing for the 1970's and 1980's.

The legislation before this committee to improve merchant marine education, whether raising the amount of Federal assistance to the schools or students, I believe is good legislation. I personally would hope that whatever bill is passed out would be so conditioned that a State would not reduce its average contribution to merchant marine education over the past 3 years.

The schools have experienced a 25- to 50-percent increase in operating costs since this legislation was last enacted. A lot of that increase they picked up at the State level.

We have to do more, and I think that the equity in expanding the Federal contribution is self-evident.

I tend to share the views of Mr. Keith in his bill that the United States should not increase assistance unless we can be sure that the country will be getting something for its investment. I don't know that we insure that the country gets something for its investment directly by Mr. Keith's bill. I think I have coauthored the thought of that bill.

There might be some problem in implementing the mechanics of A payback program. But certainly I would say that if we expand the assistance to State academies from $75,000 to $250,000, No. 1, we ought to make sure that we condition that these funds are only going to go to a State that doesn't merely pay back its State treasury for what it has been doing for the past few years, and make sure that the average State contribution for the last 3 years remains static.

Second, if student assistance was reasonable at $600 10 years ago when we enacted this legislation or perhaps back even farther than that, just by simple increase in cost of living, a thousand dollars should be the minimum at the present time.

But again I don't think we want to subsidize the State tuitionnaires who want to get all of this money back from the students in the form of tuition.

So we perhaps ought to have some clauses in this to protect against immediate recoupment by the State of those additional funds.

The idea of Federal aid to education is not to totally relieve the State of the burden that would normally be expended, but to try to increase the quality and increase the attractiveness of education, and I think if we can provide a way to get this thousand dollars to students where they can really use it for their own maintenance, we are going to be attracting better kids into the merchant marine academies.

But if we allow the States to steal the thousand dollars by way of tuition, they are going to say, "We are just getting a thousand dollars from the Federal Government, and we have to pay it back again, get it on the right and pay it back on the left.” And I don't think it is very good.

I would suggest additionally that we make $100,000 available to those schools who achieve certification by appropriate collegiate boards that result in qualification for listing in the Department of Education, Education Directory of Higher Education. This is a kind of new thought. This is a rather alarming thing.

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I know at our Maritime Academy in Vallejo we have a degree, an optional degree in engineering science or aeronautical science, and the idea is that you are getting a bachelor of science degree. You try to take that degree to the University of California, which is a State school, and they say, "We can't admit you into graduate education. In fact, we can't even matriculate your credits."

I think we ought to do something about this. We are trying to do it at the State level. I am sure that all the States perhaps with the exception of the Texas Academy, which is tied in with the university, have somewhat this problem, and I think we ought to provide some incentive to the States to professionalize truly their academies and make sure they get degreed merchant marine professors teaching these courses, and I think a carrot, like additional funds if they achieve these certain standards, would be a great step toward improving the education at these academies.

I would think then if we did that and if these academies then were allowed to be listed along with other colleges in the country in the Department of Education Director of Colleges, then automatically would be implemented the right of the students attending these schools to other kinds of student loans and guaranteed loans and things like that.

I have a little analysis of all kinds of Government assistance loans for schools. They appear to be implemented primarily by the qualification of the schools. I would think we would probably be accomplishing some of the things that Mr. Keith has in mind and also improving the professional quality of the education.

(The prepared statement follows:)

STATEMENT OF HONORABLE ROBERT L. LEGGETT, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS

FROM THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA MR. CHAIRMAN : It is my distinguished pleasure to deliver a few remarks to you this morning on the future of Merchant Marine Education. I know Admiral Willie Williamson of my California Maritime Academy gave the committee the views of his Board of Governors a few days ago. Frankly I was happily surprised to hear the California statistics on Merchant Marine retention of our California graduates.

I want to begin my presentation this morning by giving you the first page of my remarks to this year's graduating class of the Academy.

"Admiral Williamson, Distinguished Board of Governors, Faculty, Midshipmen, and Proud Parents. It is my real pleasure to accept Admiral Williamson's invitation to come from Washington and be with you here today to celebrate the graduation of this ambitious looking group of new Naval and Merchant Marine officers. You men are part of 413 officers programmed to graduate this year from state academy schools all over the nation.

I don't have to tell you gentlemen that the Congress of the United States is not as proud of the United States Merchant Marine as it would like to be. The fault lies partially with the Congress. The Great Society extends to every area apparently but Merchant Shipping, and I must confess that Federal support for this great Maritime School does not give me any particular pride either. In 1959, when we had an enrollment of 220 and a fairly sound dollar, the State of California contributed $365,000 and the Federal Government contributed $218,000. Now, 10 years later, with somewhat inflated dollars, the Federal Government is still contributing $218,000, enrollments are up 15 percent and the State of California has nearly doubled its $365,000 investment.

Total Federal costs this year for maritime schools nationally will be a static $2 million and I know you students have raised your level of contribution from $405 a year to $750 a year the last 10 years average.

As you know, there was an effort last year of the Government to renege on the $600 per student payment when the allocation was dropped in June and July to $500. Many of us from Maritime States immediately responded (I with my H.R. 11325) to require that the $600 figure be paid as a minimum. I, together with the California Delegation and Mr. Hathaway from Maine also raised the school support item from $75,000 to $250,000 annually in legislation submitted.

The legislation languishes in Committee until the Administration determines that they can support the bill. With President Nixon bent to cut another $342 billion out of the current year's budget, prospects for enactment are not bright.

I can confirm, however, that the Maritime Administration does intend to make several hundred thousand dollars available later this fiscal year to build new teaching space in the Golden Bear. Lest you believe, however, that the Government has totally forsaken Merchant Shipping, I would like to go over some figures developed for me last month by the Bureau of the Budget.

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1 The present program costs are from fiscal year 1968 data submitted to Congressman Leggett by the Bureau of the Budget and the Maritime Administration.

2 This figure will not substantially change during the period fiscal years 1971-75 because there are enough subsidized ships which are over 20 years old so as to require their retirement when replaced by the newly constructed vessels.

3 This decrease directly results from the voluntary termination of service by 3-passenger vessels. 4 This decrease is caused by the reduction in the usable NDRF ships which are being maintained. 5 Estimate by the Treasury Department as expressed in a letter to Congressman Robert L. Leggett dated Apr. 18, 1969

I discussed the policy of a new Merchant Program with the young men. We are planning in the 70s and 80s for a new automated merchant fleet. We will need qualified young men to opt for a Merchant Marine career.

The legislation before the committee to improve Merchant Marine education whether raising the amount of Federal assistance to the schools or students is good. I personally would hope that whatever bill is passed out would be so conditioned that a state would not reduce its average contribution to Merchant Marine education over the past three years.

The schools have experienced a 25 to 50% increase in operating costs since this legislation was last enacted. The equity and need for the increased assistance is self-evident.

I tend to share the views of Mr. Keith on his bill, H.R. 8328, that the United States should not increase student assistance unless we can be sure that the country will be getting something for its investment.

I would like to see this legislation enacted increasing the Federal assistance to academies from $75,000 to $250,000 annually plus required ship replacement and repair. These funds should be conditional on state expenditures equal at least to the average of the past three years.

Secondly, student assistance should be increased without a needs test to $1,000 per year minimum and again we don't want to subsidize the State “tuitioners". These funds should be conditioned on no increase in State tuition charges.

I would suggest additionally that we make $100,000 available to those schools who achieve certification by appropriate Collegiate Boards that result in qualifi

a

cation for listing in the Department of Education, Education Directory of Higher Education.

I would suspect that students in an approved college of higher education could then qualify for NDEA or guaranteed loans as their needs may be.

I think this should provide substantial incentive to state Maritime Schools to achieve certification and expand their curriculums.

Mr. DoWNING. Thank you very much, Congressman Leggett. Mr. Hathaway? Mr. HATHAWAY. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you very much, Bob, for your statement with which I agree wholeheartedly. I think that the last problem you point to is peculiar to the school in California, because I understand that the other maritime academies are entitled to loans under the Higher Education Act. I think we have testimony indicating that, and when your superintendent was here the other day, he indicated that they are working on getting themselves certified so that they will be entitled to NDEA and guaranteed loan provisions.

Mr. LEGGETT. I think the Massachusetts school is still working toward certification. I think certification is the thing that actuates the loan entitlement.

Mr. HATHAWAY. Certainly it is a good idea.

Mr. LEGGETT. I think we ought to be moving toward a 4-year school rather than a 3-year school or at least 4 years worth of credit. Whether they can consolidate that into 3 years or not is up to the school. But I think there is a lot we can do here in the committee toward developing uniform regulations that would apply to all of the academies.

Of course, these are all State academies, but they all relate to the Navy in that they provide Naval Reserve commissions.

I think we can provide appropriate carrots in legislation that we enact which will achieve certain uniform standards of performance.

Mr. HATHAWAY. Thank you.
Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. DOWNING. Mr. Keith.
Congressman Watkins has yielded.
Mr. KEITH. I appreciate your yielding.

I appreciate particularly the fine statement that you have made and your ability to lend complete support to Mr. Hathaway and also the fact that in your statement you warmly endorsed my concept. It is good to have you join me this way in the public record. I am delighted.

I really congratulate you on your perception of this problem, and I am grateful for the support that you are giving to our efforts to solve it.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. DOWNING. Mr. Watkins?

Mr. WATKINS. No. I just say good morning to the distinguished Congressman. I am happy to hear your remarks, and I assure you that I shall go through your whole brief very carefully. I don't know how many of the ideas that you offered I coneur in, how many I am for and how many against. I will have to look at the record.

Mr. LEGGETT. Very good. You people are the professionals.

Mr. WATKINS. Did I understand you right to say that you do believe that this money should be paid back?

Mr. LEGGETT. If there is a clever way that we can recapture it, I am not opposed to that at all. I don't recall if I coauthored your bill or not.

Mr. WATKINS. What do you mean by a clever way? You either pay it back or you don't.

Mr. LEGGETT. OK. In contemplating this matter, I am not positive whether the students would rather have $600 in hand as a gift or $1,000 that they have to pay back. Now, this might be something where you might get some views of the students.

Mr. WATKINS. I think if I were the student, I would take the $600 that I didn't have to pay back because I know that every one of those students is going to be a good citizen and pay it back. .

Mr. LEGGETT. That is an arguable thing, and of course you people have to resolve that. I would hope that we could substantially beef up the attractiveness.

Mr. WATKINS. You do think that the students should secure the money and pay it back? You don't think we should offer free education in this?

Mr. LEGGETT. Well, the money really doesn't bother me. The idea of recapturing this money I don't think was Mr. Keith's idea really at all. The idea was to give these kids some incentive to go to sea.

When we are spending $1 billion on merchant marine, whether or not we pick up a few hundred thousand dollars back from these kids I don't think is really the great point. The idea is whether or not they go to sea.

I was impressed with Admiral Williamson's testimony where he said that personally he was currently satisfied with the number of these kids that were going to sea and coming back. This may well not be true in the future.

Mr. WATKINS. The thing I am stressing is this: We have to stop educating people in this country for free. This country wasn't built on such things as giveaway and free this and free that. This is the greatest country in the world. I just wonder if people know how nice it really is. I don't think we should be encouraging how much we are going to give. I think we should instill into our young people that it is nice to be a member of the merchant marine, we are going to give you the opportunity to learn. When I was a young fellow, I didn't even have the opportunity to go to college. Do you know why? Because I had to go to work. I had to keep my family. I don't think it has hurt me. I have made a good living. It's a great country. Let's stop talking about how much we are going to give away. Let's let these boys and girls realize that this is a great country to live in and it is worth working for an education. I got mine the hard way through International Correspondence and perhaps it shows today. Believe me, it's a great country and let's not give it away. Let's everybody pay the bill for living in this country. There is too much giveaway.

Mr. LEGGETT. I agree with everything the gentleman said. I think one problem we have in this area is the problem of uniformity, and of course we have the academies at Annapolis and West Point.

Mr. WATKINS. I am all for the academies, believe me.

Mr. LEGGETT. And Kings Point, and that is the Merchant Marine Academy. Of course, we clearly cradle these kids there where it is totally paid for, and it is all a giveaway.

The idea was that, since these young merchant marine officers are also accepting the commission in the Naval Reserve and since we pay

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