Doctor SQUIRE. Yes; but as I have said, most of the men I have come in contact with claim that the drugs they get from drug peddlers are smuggled. Mr. CONNALLY. Then one need now is better enforcement of the laws we have already got

Doctor SQUIRE. I would say that.

Mr. CONNALLY. Rather than making new ones.

Doctor SQUIRE. Yes; I would say that. I think if you could stop the smuggling you would stop a considerable part of it.

The CHAIRMAN. Can you stop smuggling? Do you know of Sir John Jordan, a noted Englishman who has been a student of this subject for many years. Doctor SQUIRE. Yes; I have heard of him.

The CHAIRMAN. Do you agree with his statement that as long as these habitforming drugs are produced they will ultimately reach the consumer? Doctor SQUIRE. I have no question about it.

Mr. COOPER. Mr. Chairman, there is one question, I think, that ought to be asked Doctor Squire, very closely following the question asked by Mr. Connally. Mr. Connally asked the doctor whether the thing we ought to do now, or the thing that was necessary now, or the most needed thing now was not the enactment of new laws but the enforcement of the old laws. The enforcement

of the old law would not suppress the manufacture of heroin. Doctor SQUIRE. No.

Mr. COOPER. Then we need a new law.

Doctor SQUIRE. Yes.

Mr. CONNALLY. I agree with you on that.

Doctor SQUIRE. Yes; I was just giving my approval to the statement that the law as enacted should be enforced. I believe the purpose of this resolution is good.

Mr. BEGG. Doctor, I would like to ask you a couple of questions. When a man is caught and convicted of being a dope peddler, what is the average length of his sentence?

Doctor SQUIRE. He is generally sent to the penitentiary. It is a misdemeanor

Mr. BEGG (interposing). For how long?

Doctor SQUIRE. For a period of a few months. They have what they call an indeterminate sentence, which makes them paroleable after a few months. Mr. BEGG. Then he is released and goes back into the trade again?

Doctor SQUIRE. Yes.

Mr. COOPER. Do you mean that they are sent to a penitentiary?

Mr. BEGG. I would like to follow this up a little further.

Mr. COOPER. I understood him to say it was a misdemeanor.

Mr. BEGG. They are sent to the penitentiary, and in the penitentiary cases the average term now is about three years?

Doctor SQUIRE. Yes, sir.

Mr. BEGG. And then upon good behavior they are released in a little over two years, and then they are right back in the same old trade channels again. Now, would it not be a good thing and a remedial thing to give them 10 years or 20 years for a second offense?

Mr. SABATH. Why not make it life?

Mr. COCKRAN. Yes; why not make it life? Why not be generous about it? Mr. BEGG. When you have an habitual man like that, why not put him in and keep him there?

Doctor SQUIRE. I believe that, too.

Mr. BEGG. We have had too much soft stuff with the criminal to-day to stop crimes.

Doctor SQUIRE. I will tell you what I think about the drug peddler. I think he is about the worst specimen of human being you can conceive of. There is no term to my mind which is sufficient to punish a man who deliberately for gain murders thousands of lives.

Mr. BEGG. I should like to have your statement on the proposition that the length of the sentence ought to be materially increased for a man convicted of being a drug peddler.

Doctor SQUIRE. There is not a bit of doubt

Mr. COCKRAN. I think, Mr. Begg, that you and the witness are talking at cross-purposes.

Mr. BEGG. No; I think not.

Mr. COCKRAN. The doctor's emphasis falls particularly on the drug peddler, whereas you refer to the drug user.

Doctor SQUIRE. No; I am referring to the drug peddler. I feel sorry for the drug user.

I think a man who is

Mr. BEGG. And I am referring to the drug peddler. convicted of drug peddling ought to get more than three years.

Are

The CHAIRMAN. I understand that a Federal judge at Philadelphia has been sentencing these drug peddlers to the penitentiary for 25 or 30 years. you sure that it is only a misdemeanor to sell these drugs? Doctor SQUIRE. No; I thought you referred to the drug user. Mr. BEGG. I am talking about the user.

Doctor SQUIRE. I think the drug peddler is responsible for the number of drug addicts, for I have been told by drug addicts that the drug peddler, in order to get trade developed, often gives sample packages of his horrible ware. Mr. BEGG. Did you get any detailed information as to the source from which drug peddlers obtain the drug?

Doctor SQUIRE. No; they are careful about that.

Mr. MOORES. Something was said about smuggling awhile ago.

Doctor SQUIRE. I have spoken of that, because an addict will sometimes tell me.

Mr. MOORES. You have difficulty in getting any information about that, Doctor, do you?

Doctor SQUIRE. Very much so.

The CHAIRMAN. Going back to the prison, will you tell the committee of some of the methods that are resorted to for the purpose of getting habit-forming drugs to the prisoners?

Doctor SQUIRE. Yes.

The CHAIRMAN. The method employed to get these habit-forming drugs to the prisoners in the penitentiary?

Doctor SQUIRE. They try almost every way to get it to the prisoners, as they would in any penal institution, but I do not think we have been as free as we have been in the last year from drugs inside the prison. I have no personal knowledge of it being there at the present time. We are constantly on the alert to look forward to it, and another reason why is that at Sing Sing we are favorably situated. If a drug addict comes in there, and I have been treating him, we send him to Denmore Prison, which is 400 miles from New York City, where visits are rare, and the opportunities for getting it to them is very much lessened, so that helps very materially in keeping Sing Sing free from the drug to-day.

Mr. ACKERMAN. How do they take it, usually?

Doctor SQUIRE. They snuff it, and with morphine they use the hypodermic needle. They also use cocaine.

Mr. ACKERMAN. How do they take it?

Doctor SQUIRE. By the mouth, or by snuffing it, or by injection.

Mr. ACKERMAN. So cocaine and heroin can be taken by snuffing?

Doctor SQUIRE. Yes. I would eliminate that as being one of our sources of trouble. Heroin is the main problem, to my mind.

The CHAIRMAN. A witness yesterday testified that the use of heroin was more common in the vicinity of New York than it was in other sections of the country.

Doctor SQUIRE. I am not familiar with that.

Mr. MOORES. This prison that you referred to a moment ago is very near the Canadian border. Is there any complaint there?

Doctor SQUIRE. No. There are only two roads to go there. If a prisoner escapes he is generally lost and comes back.

The CHAIRMAN. I have before me a photograph of 120 ounces of cocaine picked up near Phoenix, Ariz., smuggled in over the Mexican border. About how many doses is 120 ounces?

Doctor SQUIRE. That is quite a mathematical problem. I could not tell you that. The average dose of heroin used to be

The CHAIRMAN. This is cocaine.

Doctor SQUIRE. They generally use that in solution, to 2 per cent. Some men operating on the nose will increase that.

The CHAIRMAN. It is 200 ounces.

Doctor SQUIRE. I could not tell you. It is a matter of figuring.

The CHAIRMAN. It was sold for $12,500. Do you know the price these peddlers receive?

Doctor SQUIRE. They get what they can. With heroin they adulterate it with sugar of milk. They adulterate it so much that he does not get the effect sometimes, and he is cheated out of his money.

Mr. COOPER. What has been the effect of heroin?

Doctor SQUIRE. The physical effect?

Mr. COOPER. The physical effect; yes, sir.

Doctor SQUIRE. They generally start with a small dose, and it is usually a small amount that they take at first. They gradually increase it. At Sing Sing I had a patient who claimed he took 80 grains during a day. I would say offhand that probably 15 to 25 grains would be the average dose of heroin. Mr. COOPER. What is the effect of it?

Doctor SQUIRE. First, you do not notice any effect; but if they continually use it their physical condition becomes impaired, they become emaciated, and there is a discoloration around the eyes. Those who snuff it generally have watering of the eyes, and they have a very great loss of self-respect. In their mental make-up you notice that they disregard the truth; in fact, we have more trouble from drug addicts than from any other class of criminal.

The CHAIRMAN. How many grains to the ounce, apothecary weight?
Doctor SQUIRE. Four hundred and eighty, I would say.

The CHAIRMAN. The clerk of the committee, Mr. Erk has calculated that in: 200 ounces there are 96,000 grains. Now, the ordinary addict takes how much at a time?

Doctor SQUIRE. Cocaine is usually taken by the ordinary addict in a 2 per cent solution. That would entail considerable figuring.

The CHAIRMAN. Take a 2 per cent solution. How much of the solution would he take?

Doctor SQUIRE. How much of the solution?

The CHAIRMAN. Yes; how much of the solution would an addict take?

Doctor SQUIRE. That would depend on the drug addict. If he was a beginner, he would take a small amount. If he had been using it for some time, he would take a greater amount.

The CHAIRMAN. If he took one grain at a dose, this one instance of smuggling would furnish 96,000 thousand doses.

Doctor SQUIRE. Yes; that would not take care of many people.

Mr. CONNALLY. You stated what the effect was from your standpoint. What is the effect on the prisoner himself?

Doctor SQUIRE. If he is taking a systematic venture of it, I have seen drug addicts that carry on their pursuits and professions. I have in mind a physi cian at the present time who is a drug addict, and he carries on his ordinary practice of medicine. He operates, if necessary. There are men of other professions who are addicts. The effect depends upon the personality of the man himself.

Mr. COLE. How long can they go on that way?

Doctor SQUIRE. Indefinitely. I know one man who has been using it for 35 years.

Mr. COLE. He must break down sometime.

Doctor SQUIRE. He took a small quantity of paregoric, and he would alternate that with laudanum.

The CHAIRMAN. Have you been able to form any idea as to where the habit is first acquired?

The

Doctor SQUIRE. No; but most of them acquire it in the early twenties. average age of the Sing Sing prisoner is 28 years and 4 months. We take them as young as 16, and have had them come in as high as 76.

Mr. COOPER. You say a physician was a dope fiend?

Doctor SQUIRE. He is an addict to drugs.

Mr. COOPER. But the drug he took was paregoric.

Doctor SQUIRE. That was not the doctor that I referred to.

Mr. COOPER. He was a physician?

Doctor SQUIRE. I did recite that I did know a physician who did take drugs, but that was morphine.

Mr. COOPER. Have you ever known a physician to take drugs or heroin for any great length of time, so he be called a dope fiend, and it not affect his mental and moral nature?

Doctor SQUIRE. As I say, the effect upon persons mental and physical condition depends on the man. A half dozen taking the same quantity of doses would have different results. Lots of people take it, like some people use alcohol, and they can carry on their ordinary pursuits.

Mr. ACKERMAN. Do these addicts, these persons who use these drugs, while being incarcerated become cured, or does their desire for the drug become as great as ever when their sentence is finished?

Doctor SQUIRE. I know of no class of patients that I have seen who are like the drug addict. If they had been treated, they might even then take it. Mr. ACKERMAN. What time does it take them to be weaned?

Doctor SQUIRE. That depends on the patient; anyway from four to six weeks, depending upon the quantity they have taken, and also whether there was not some other disease present. I look upon the drug addict as being a disease, and a medical proposition when they come to us, just like, if a man has tuberculosis or some other disease, we would not ever eliminate it from him entirely, but otherwise we do, and have absolute control, because we have a ward set apart for drug addicts, and they are given different clothing and their food is brought to them.

Mr. MOORES. Have any of them ever told you what the drug peddlers charge? Doctor SQUIRE. No; they charge what they can get.

Mr. MOORE. There must be some sort of understanding.

Doctor SQUIRE. Probably so, they do tell me it is not difficult to get.

Mr. SABATH. You state that heroin is snuffed. Do you know anything about these forms of tobacco that are being snuffed. There is one form of tobacco, a white tobacco, as I understand it, that is snuffed.

Doctor SQUIRE. I am not familiar with it, Congressman.

Mr. SABATH. Do you know what that contains?

Doctor SQUIRE. No, sir; I do not know.

Mr. SABATH. Whether it contains any of these drugs?

Doctor SQUIRE. I have not seen it.

I want to express my appreciation for the courtesy you have accorded me. The CHAIRMAN. It was very kind of you to appear, and I thank you.

Before I call another witness, I have another telegram that I would like to read into the record. It is from the White Cross. The White Cross was organized two or three years ago on the western coast. It appears that they suffer more from smuggling in California, Washington, and Oregon than in interior States, so that a number of public-spirited citizens organized what is called the White Cross, to fight the menace of habit-forming narcotic drugs. I have this telegram. They asked to be heard, but I was afraid they could not reach Washington in time, on account of the impending adjournment of Congress. The telegram is as follows:

Limitation of opium and cocaine production to actual medical and legitimate necessities imperatively demanded to stop flood entering America and other countries. Your resolution dispensing for present with convention, and shortcircuiting the appeals to offending nations, a worthy example of American diplomatic directness. Nations should follow example of China in destroying poppy plantations. Resolution supported by White Cross with all our force. Serious opposition thought incredible.

FRANK WATERHOUSE,

Chairman Trustees of White Cross.
W. H. BLISS, President.

Mr. UNDERWOOD. I just wanted to say that I got a telegram from Mr. Bliss this morning, asking me to appear for the White Cross. I am a member of the White Cross, but I do not know anything that I can say. They asked me to find a Mr. Fleem, who knows all about it. I thought I had the telegram in my pocket, but I find I do not.

The CHAIRMAN. We would be glad to hear you. I have two other witnesses that I want to hear first. The next witness is Captain Bouterse.

STATEMENT OF CAPT. WESLEY BOUTERSE, SALVATION ARMY.

The CHAIRMAN. Will you kindly state your address?

Captain BOUTERSE. 607 E Street NW., Washington, D. C.

The CHAIRMAN. Your occupation?

Captain BOUTERSE. Salvation Army officer.

The CHAIRMAN. How long have you been connected with the Salvation Army? Captain BOUTERSE. Well, I have been connected with it all my life. I was practically born in the organization, and have been an officer for five years. The CHAIRMAN. Are you familiar with the resolution pending before the committee?

Captain BOUTERSE. Yes, sir; I am familiar with it.

The CHAIRMAN. And have you conferred with the officers of the Salvation Army in regard to that resolution?

Captain BoUTERSE. Yes, sir.