Mr. BIDDLE. What is the figure? You said 150,000 included the mixed fertilizers. Mr. BRAND. Anaconda's production is less than 40,000 tons and the total is 150,000. Mr. BIDDLE. You still don't get me. I am talking about the distribution of phosphate, nonmixed, simply in the same form T. V. A. distributes it. Mr. BRAND. We have no means of knowing that. Mr. BIDDLE. It is small, isn't it? Mr. BRAND. It is the difference between what was distributed by T. V. A. direct and through triple A and the total. It is a very considerable quantity. There is roughly three times as much used in mixtures I would say as is used in the concentrated form. The machines for distribution are not suited to the distribution of our concentrated commodity. Mr. BIDDLE. It would be less than 62,000 tons then? Mr. BRAND. Yes, that is right. Mr. BIDDLE. All right then, that makes it clear. Mr. BRAND. I ran off the track, and I will have to get back. Mr. BRAND. Yes. Representative JENKINS. You say the instruments by which the fertilizer is distributed are not adapted to distributing this concentrated material. You mean the drills, the grain drills, and such as that? Mr. BRAND. That is right. Representative JENKINS. The fertilizer drills have been built on a basis to distribute Mr. BRAND. A less concentrated chemical. Representative JENKINS. A less concentrated mixture. Mr. BRAND. Yes. Representative JENKINS. What can you mix that stuff with? Mr. BRAND. About 10 years ago we financed the organization of a research program to determine that, and we found the best procedure, and the machines are now being distributed through the regular agencies, is to place it in bands under the seed sufficiently far away so that it will not burn the seed, and that gives a very much larger yield, incidentally, also, by probably improving the stand, and through other things. Representative JENKINS. In other words, you put it below the hose that carries the grain down? Mr. BRAND. Put another delivery opening which goes below it. Mr. BRAND. That is right. Representative JENKINS. That is covered up. Representative JENKINS. At the present time, I mean with the ordinary machinery, what do you mix it with, do you mix it with lime? How does it come, I never saw this highly concentrated stuff as it comes out. Mr. BRAND. It comes out in a friable material. I wish I had brought a bottle along to show you. It is very much like the normal superphosphate, you can't tell the difference. It is very much like the same mixture, friable dusty material. Representative JENKINS. Does mixing it with lime affect it? Mr. BRAND. Yes, to some extent it is done. Of course the T. V. A. program calls for the addition of 2 to 3 tons of lime for each ton of concentrated superphosphate. That is an added expense that is not so necessary when normal superphosphate is used. That runs from 16 to 20 percent. Representative JENKINS. They prescribe that per acre, but you don't know whether they prescribe it to be mixed with the lime, is that the way? Mr. BRAND. No, they usually apply the lime separately. They can use sand as a mixture to make it possible to get a more even distribution. Representative JENKINS. That makes an extra application, and adds to the expense? Mr. BRAND. Yes. DISTRIBUTION OF FERTILIZERS Mr. BIDDLE. I am not clear on your figures. You said 1,200,000 of mixed fertilizer was distributed. Mr. BRAND. 8,000,000. Mr. BIDDLE. You said one. Mr. BRAND. 8,200,000. Mr. BIDDLE. That is nearer. Mr. BRAND. That includes all, separate materials and mixtures as well. Mr. BIDDLE. All right, I accept that. Mr. BRAND. I said we felt this operation of large-scale production of concentrated superphosphate is we will say unnecessary because of the fact that private industry is so fully equipped to supply every possible need. The T. V. A. also distributes and sells its products in such a manner as we feel needlessly to displace the products of private industry. Representative JENKINS. Right there, will you permit a question. on that? Mr. BRAND. Yes. Representative JENKINS. It was brought out here T. V. A. is now producing a superphosphate of about 62 to 65 percent, what they call Mr. BRAND. Calcium metaphosphate. Representative JENKINS. Yes; calcium metaphosphate. Mr. BRAND. Yes. Representative JENKINS. Now, then, you talk about a 43-percent grade. Mr. BRAND. Yes. Representative JENKINS. Your industry can produce the 43; can you produce the same quality as this metaphosphate? Mr. BRAND. Mr. Jenkins, a great deal has been said about metaphosphate, but metaphosphate is purely an experimental commodity. It has not been used in the fertilizer industry. Some minor experiments have been made, and the Tennessee Valley Authority is now Mr. BIDDLE. What is the figure? You said 150,000 included the mixed fertilizers. Mr. BRAND. Anaconda's production is less than 40,000 tons and the total is 150,000. Mr. BIDDLE. You still don't get me. I am talking about the distribution of phosphate, nonmixed, simply in the same form T. V. A. distributes it. Mr. BRAND. We have no means of knowing that. Mr. BIDDLE. It is small, isn't it? Mr. BRAND. It is the difference between what was distributed by T. V. A. direct and through triple A and the total. It is a very considerable quantity. There is roughly three times as much used in mixtures I would say as is used in the concentrated form. The ma chines for distribution are not suited to the distribution of our concentrated commodity. Mr. BIDDLE. It would be less than 62,000 tons then? Mr. BRAND. Yes, that is right. Mr. BIDDLE. All right then, that makes it clear. Mr. BRAND. I ran off the track, and I will have to get back. Mr. BRAND. Yes. Representative JENKINS. You say the instruments by which the fertilizer is distributed are not adapted to distributing this concentrated material. You mean the drills, the grain drills, and such as that? Mr. BRAND. That is right. Representative JENKINS. The fertilizer drills have been built on a basis to distribute Mr. BRAND. A less concentrated chemical. Representative JENKINS. A less concentrated mixture. Representative JENKINS. What can you mix that stuff with? Mr. BRAND. About 10 years ago we financed the organization of a research program to determine that, and we found the best procedure, and the machines are now being distributed through the regular agencies, is to place it in bands under the seed sufficiently far away so that it will not burn the seed, and that gives a very much larger yield, incidentally, also, by probably improving the stand, and through other things. Representative JENKINS. In other words, you put it below the hose that carries the grain down? Mr. BRAND. Put another delivery opening which goes below it. Mr. BRAND. That is right. Representative JENKINS. That is covered up. Mr. BRAND. That is right. Representative JENKINS. At the present time, I mean with the ordinary machinery, what do you mix it with, do you mix it with lime? How does it come, I never saw this highly concentrated stuff as it comes out. Mr. BRAND. It comes out in a friable material. I wish I had brought a bottle along to show you. It is very much like the normal superphosphate, you can't tell the difference. It is very much like the same mixture, friable dusty material. Representative JENKINS. Does mixing it with lime affect it? Mr. BRAND. Yes, to some extent it is done. Of course the T. V. A. program calls for the addition of 2 to 3 tons of lime for each ton of concentrated superphosphate. That is an added expense that is not so necessary when normal superphosphate is used. That runs from 16 to 20 percent. Representative JENKINS. They prescribe that per acre, but you don't know whether they prescribe it to be mixed with the lime, is that the way? Mr. BRAND. No, they usually apply the lime separately. They can use sand as a mixture to make it possible to get a more even distribution. Representative JENKINS. That makes an extra application, and adds to the expense? Mr. BRAND. Yes. DISTRIBUTION OF FERTILIZERS Mr. BIDDLE. I am not clear on your figures. You said 1,200,000 of mixed fertilizer was distributed. Mr. BRAND. 8,000,000. Mr. BIDDLE. You said one. Mr. BRAND. 8,200,000. Mr. BIDDLE. That is nearer. Mr. BRAND. That includes all, separate materials and mixtures as well. Mr. BIDDLE. All right, I accept that. Mr. BRAND. I said we felt this operation of large-scale production of concentrated superphosphate is we will say unnecessary because of the fact that private industry is so fully equipped to supply every possible need. The T. V. A. also distributes and sells its products in such a manner as we feel needlessly to displace the products of private industry. Representative JENKINS. Right there, will you permit a question on that? Mr. BRAND. Yes. Representative JENKINS. It was brought out here T. V. A. is now producing a superphosphate of about 62 to 65 percent, what they call Mr. BRAND. Calcium metaphosphate. Representative JENKINS. Yes; calcium metaphosphate. Mr. BRAND. Yes. Representative JENKINS. Now, then, you talk about a 43-percent grade. Mr. BRAND. Yes. Representative JENKINS. Your industry can produce the 43; can you produce the same quality as this metaphosphate? Mr. BRAND. Mr. Jenkins, a great deal has been said about metaphosphate, but metaphosphate is purely an experimental commodity. It has not been used in the fertilizer industry. Some minor experiments have been made, and the Tennessee Valley Authority is now extending its investigations to determine to what extent it may be used, both independently and in mixtures. Representative JENKINS. So that it has not had any effect on your business? Mr. BRAND. It has had no effect on any business, because only a few hundred tons at the very most have been produced. Mr. BIDDLE. What is the percentage of the stuff, of their product, that you object to? CONCENTRATION OF DISTRIBUTION Mr. BRAND. The total-and I wanted to come to that, because your question as to the 8,200,000 raises this point. The total, relative to the total consumption of fertilizer, is not great, but when it is concentrated, as it largely is in two or three States, it does become a very distinctly adverse competitive factor. For instance, of the 62,000 nearly 63,000 tons this year, 33,000 tons, equal to 82,000 tons of normal superphosphate are going into the State of Tennessee alone, concentrating that competition right there in that State. Mr. BIDDLE. How much of your fertilizer went into that State, that year, do you remember? Mr. BRAND. Our consumption for the first 10 months of this year is roughly 117,000 tons. That is interesting, too, that the quantity used in Tennessee is only 11,000 tons or one-third the quantity used in Kentucky, the neighboring State. Acting Chairman SCHWARTZ. You said Tennessee before; you meant Kentucky? Mr. BRAND. Yes. Mr. BIDDLE. Both your figures and T. V. A. apply to Kentucky? Mr. BRAND. Yes. Representative JENKINS. That is 11,000, not one-third of 112,000. Mr. BRAND. No, I am speaking now of the concentrated. Let me give it to you straight: Of the total of nearly 63,000 of concentrated superphosphate. Representative JENKINS. Put out by T. V. A. Mr. BRAND. 33,000 tons going into Kentucky, and 11,000 tons, or one-third that amount, is going into Tennessee. Senator FRAZIER. That isn't being sold, is it? Mr. BRAND. Well, Senator Frazier, when they ask whether it is sold or not, it requires a statement, in my opinion, because some people maintain that T. V. A. does not compete with commercial manufacturers, because of the method of distribution. Recently the statement has been made, a number of times, that the T. V. A. does not sell triple superphosphate or other fertilizer. I think that this statement must be due to a misapprehension as to how inclusive the word "sell" is. We, of course, admit that it isn't an ordinary sale when it is turned over to the triple A and then distributed by the triple A to the farmer. Mr. BIDDLE. Against cash credits in some instances. Mr. BRAND. It is distributed, and the sums, or the value placed on the unit under the plan of the triple A, the Soil Conservation units, is then charged against the individual sum due to any farmer, and subtracted from that before his check is paid to him. Mr. BIDDLE. He gets phosphate instead of cash. |