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I am handing you a copy of the act as amended and suggest that you might wish to read it to the committee, the portion of the act which deals with the duties of the Comptroller General, with respect to T. V. A.

This is the act as amended.

Mr. TULLOSS (reading):

The Comptroller General of the United States shall audit the transactions of the Corporation at such times as he shall determine, but not less frequently than once each governmental fiscal year with personnel of his selection. In such connection he and his representatives shall have free and open access to all papers, books, records, files, accounts, plants, warehouses, offices, and all other things, property, and places belonging to or under the control of or used or employed by the Corporation, and shall be afforded full facilities for counting all cash and verifying transactions with and balances in depositaries. He shall make report of each such audit in quadruplicate, one copy for the President of the United States, one for the chairman of the Board, one for public inspection at the principal office of the Corporation, and the other to be retained by him for the uses of the Congress: Provided, That such report shall not be made until the Corporation shall have had reasonable opportunity to examine the exceptions and criticisms of the Comptroller General of the General Accounting Office

It appears that there is an error of print there if I may remark— to point out errors therein, explain or answer the same, and to file a statement, which shall be submitted by the Comptroller General with his report. The expenses for each such audit shall be paid from any appropriation or appropriations for the General Accounting Office, and such part of such expenses as may be allocated to the cost of generating, transmitting, and distributing electric energy shall be reimbursed promptly by the Corporation as billed by the Comptroller General. The Comptroller General shall make special report to the President of the United States and to the Congress of any transaction or condition found by him to be in conflict with the powers or duties entrusted to the Corporation by law.

Mr. BIDDLE. Now, Mr. Tulloss, I don't want in any way to suggest a line of testimony that you might follow, but it seems to me that possibly you might wish, first, to describe to the committee the relevant acts with respect to the General Accounting Office, if you wish, and then start in with your testimony with respect to its relations and responsibilities toward T. V. A., but as I say, this is only a suggestion, and we want you to follow any lines you like under that section so that I will now leave it to you to follow that. I am speaking of subsection (n) in our resolution.

Mr. TULLOSS. You speak of "relative acts," you mean the relations between the Tennessee Valley Authority and the General Accouting Office, in conducting the audit?

Mr. BIDDLE. I mean, my suggestion was that first you might wish to refer to those acts which created the General Accounting Office and defined its powers, but it is entirely up to you, whichever approach you think is the most logical.

Mr. TULLOSS. I didn't know the course of the questions you have taken, and I am unprepared to make any statement but I might say that the authority of the Comptroller General originated with the Budget and Accounting Act of June 10, 1921, which was a law consolidating and reorganizing the accounting offices of the Government, which were prior to that time under the Treasury Department for administrative purposes.

The Budget and Accounting Act consolidated the offices of the Comptroller of the Treasury, and the six auditors. These six auditors had the function of auditing accounts of the several departments and establishments. Five of them related to particular departments, and the sixth had authority over all other departments and establishments-all other departments and establishments.

The sixth auditor, the auditor for the State and other departments, if I have the number correct, audited all of the accounts except the five named for the other auditors. The authority of that auditor extended to all establishments regardless of their nature, directed specifically that he should receive, audit, and examine the accounts of all establishments not otherwise directed under the other sections, and included the Smithsonian Institution, for instance, and the Interstate Commerce Commission, as I recall, Federal Trade Commission, and others that had been created prior to June 10, 1921.

Under that authority, that is the authority consolidating the functions of the six auditors, and the Comptroller of the Treasury, there was established the authority of the Comptroller General as further supplemented by the Budget and Accounting Act.

Mr. BIDDLE. Now, will you continue with your testimony in whatever way you wish?

Mr. TULLOSS. By reason of this authority vested in the Comptroller General, and the General Accounting Office, at least I so assume, Congress saw fit to enact this section 9 (b). Is this the law as amended?

Mr. BIDDLE. Yes, as amended. If you look at the front you will see that.

Representative JENKINS. You aren't looking at section 14.

Mr. TULLOSS. That is what I was thinking. The amendment was by section 14 of the act of August 31, 1935, and I find here that is carried under section 9 (b).

Mr. BIDDLE. Isn't 14 the section of the amendment? Let us see if it isn't. I think that it refers to that section of the amending act, amending the prior act; I have before me, which I shall show the witness, the amending act, and you will notice the amending act says this:

SEC. 14. That subsection (b) of section 9, of said act, be and the same is hereby amended to read as follows:

So that the amended act when printed carries as is usual in proper drafting, the section 9, which is the amended section, designated as section 9 (b) in the amended act.

Representative JENKINS. I don't have any 9 (b) in this act.

Mr. BIDDLE. Let me get this straight because it is only a matter of drafting. The original act is with respect to the Comptroller General, is the section which has just been read by the witness. That is the amended act. You have got to get the original act. There are three acts that we have to consider: Section 9 (b) which is the section that the witness just read, in the original act of 1933, which provides that the Comptroller General of the United States shall audit the transactions of the Corporation, and then continues as the witness read it.

That section was amended by the act of August 31, 1935, in section. 14 of that amending act, section 14 of that amending act provides that subsection (b) of section 9 of the original act, to which I have just referred, shall be amended in the following way; and then the amendment is stated. Therefore, in the amended act as printed

Representative JENKINS. Are you reading from Public, No. 412, Mr. Biddle?

Mr. BIDDLE. Let me just find this section and then I will show what I am reading from: Wait until I find it.

If you will then look in the amended act as printed, which is H. R. 8632

Representative JENKINS. Public, No. 412, right above it.
Mr. BIDDLE. That is right. It says-

as amended by Public, No. 412.

It provides in section 9 (b)

Representative JENKINS. There is no 9 (b) in there.

Mr. BIDDLE. Yes; if you look on page 7, you will find section 9 (a). Representative JENKINS. I find section (b).

Mr. BIDDLE. I am now referring to H. R. 5081, as amended by Public, 412, Seventy-fourth Congress, if you will look on page 7 of that pamphlet.

Representative JENKINS. There is no 9 (b).

Mr. BIDDLE. And then, right after (a) there is (b). Now, (b) incorporates the amendment of the prior act, and if you will turn to the next page, page 8, still a part of subsection (b) you will find that the Comptroller General of the United States may audit

Representative JENKINS. And on page 11, section 14, starting— you find over on the next page, page 12, a very significant paragraph there dealing with the duties of the T. V. A. as applied to the Comptroller General.

Mr. BIDDLE. Not as applied to the Comptroller General, I think. Section 14 is

The board shall make a thorough investigationAnd so forth.

Representative JENKINS. That is right.

Mr. TULLOSS. May I remark here that I just read from the codification of the law, which I believe to be inaccurate? It is not the offi cial publication by the State Department.

Mr. BIDDLE. That is very important. I had no idea of that. Would you specify the omissions, or additions, to the codification? Mr. TULLOSS. I cannot accept that. I don't recognize this as the official publication of the Department of State.

Mr. BIDDLE. That is fairly serious, because we should get the proper one. This seems to be let us get the certificate. Are these acts certified? It says "United States Government Printing Office." I will send for the United States Code, but meanwhileMr. TULLOSS. I am sorry, the code will not give it.

Mr. BIDDLE. What would give it? This seems to be the official publication of the Government Printing Office.

Mr. TULLOSS. If you have the State Department publication of the act of August 31, 1935, you will find the law quoted, or rather as enacted, in section 14 (b) as I remember it.

Mr. BIDDLE. Well, is it merely a different designation of the section heading, or are the words different? Because we are not so much interested in section headings as we are in the act itself.

Mr. TULLOSS. You remember, that I remarked in the course of my reading, that there seemed to be an error.

Mr. BIDDLE. Where is the error, Mr. Tulloss?

Mr. TULLOSS. The one that I noted, you remember, I am not-I can't carry these matters in my mind, in detail, but there is an erroris this what I was just reading from?

Mr. BIDDLE. Yes.

Mr. TULLOSS. It says here "criticisms of the Comptroller General of the General Accounting Office," and I do not recall ever reading that in the law.

Mr. BIDDLE. It may be in error. there any other error?

Mr. TULLOss. I didn't notice.

We will check those words. Was

Mr. BIDDLE. Well, now, will you continue with your testimony, directing our attention particularly with the interference by the Tennessee Valley Authority, with the Comptroller General's audits, which we are directed to investigate?

Mr. TULLOSS. Following this enactment, the Comptroller General directed me to supervise the audit of the transactions of the Tennessee Valley Authority, in accordance with the section of the Tennessee Valley Authority Act of 1933, directing him so to do.

Pursuant to those directions, auditors were assigned to their duty, and from that time on, beginning shortly after the enactment, I gave general supervision to the conduct of the audit. Representatives of the Comptroller General were designated and assigned and were placed under my supervision.

I gave no direct supervision to the audit-it was general. The Tennessee Valley Authority transactions run into the thousands, and it took quite a while to examine them.

Mr. Chairman, I am afraid that I cannot think logically and in sequence when I am being interferred with by these gentlemen. Mr. BIDDLE. You mean the cameraman or me?

Mr. TULLOss. The cameraman. I had him over on this side twice, and now he is over here.

Mr. BIDDLE. I am sorry. I think it is
I think it is very hard.
Chairman DONAHEY. I agree with you.

Mr. TULLOSS. I am not used to this anyway, and to have that going on, interferes.

In the course of the audit of the Tennessee Valley Authority transactions, we found it very difficult to find records. Mind you, I am speaking of the comment of the representatives of the Office, in undertaking this audit, it was difficult to find records, and difficult to obtain from the representatives of the T. V. A. the information needed to support the accounts. We spent months in Knoxville, and at various places where the transactions took place, trying to determine the correctness of those transactions.

Later, in order to remedy this situation, it was proposed that the Tennessee Valley Authority render the accounts to the General Accounting Office in the same manner as the other activities of the Government. After much correspondence, that was agreed to in part, so that we now have the situation by which the accounts are rendered in part, and are audited in Washington, and the remainder of the accounts must necessarily be examined at Knoxville and other places.

We

The accounts rendered to Washington are not complete. have made repeated attempts to obtain the information necessary to complete the audit, and have been successful at this time to a considerable extent. Certain documents are still withheld from us, particularly the checks, and the accounting in certain phases is unsatisfactory.

LETTER FROM ACTING COMPTROLLER GENERAL

I have repeated here briefly my recollection of what was stated in the report of the Comptroller General, to the committee, in his letter of November 22, 1938, and to any extent that I may have deviated from that, it is inadvertent.

Representative JENKINS. To which committee, did you mean? Mr. TULLOSs. To this committee, if you please, sir, addressed to the chairman of the committee, Senator Donahey.

Representative JENKINS. Is there any question about that, Mr. Biddle, about what was in that letter? Should we have the letter at this time?

Mr. BIDDLE. I think it is a 20- or 30-page summary of the whole situation, and he is going to go on with that.

Mr. TULLOSS. I was coming to that, and with the committee's permission, I would like to have the report inserted in the record, as my testimony.

Mr. BIDDLE. You mean the letter that you just spoke of?

Mr. TULLOSS. Yes.

Mr. BIDDLE. Wouldn't you prefer to read it, because it is very important, or would you prefer

Mr. TULLOSS. I prefer not to, because it is just time-taking.

Chairman DONAHEY. You want it made a part of the record, and I think that it should be, and so ordered, if there is no objection. Mr. BIDDLE. We have the original of it here.

Representative JENKINS. Do we have copies of that?

Mr. BIDDLE. No; we just received it. It will be on the record so that you will get it tomorrow. I have a copy here.

Chairman DONAHEY. Without objection, so ordered.

Representative JENKINS. Are you going to interrogate him about this big 30-page letter? Don't you think that we should defer this until we have a copy?

Mr. BIDDLE. I am going to interrogate him about some matters, many of which touch the letter.

Representative THOMASON. The witness wants to make a statement along the lines of the letter, so that we will get an idea.

Representative JENKINS. He has already made his statement. Mr. TULLOSS. Beg your pardon, I have no statement to make. The only information that I have is in these records, and I can read

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