service that has been rendered by the vast majority of the men and women of U.S. Armed Forces.

Thank you Mr. Chairman. My colleagues have some comments to make.

Chairman WARNER. Thank you very much, Secretary Cambone. General Smith, do you have a few opening comments?

STATEMENT OF LT. GEN. LANCE L. SMITH, USAF, DEPUTY COMMANDER, UNITED STATES CENTRAL COMMAND General SMITH. Senator Warner, Senator Levin, members of the committee, sir, I'll stand by the comments that I made on Friday, but to add that, once again, on behalf of General Abizaid and all the men and women of CENTCOM, we regret very much that these events ever occurred, and apologize to those who are victims of the abuse.

I would like to assure you that, in every case where the investigations have had recommendations and findings, that we have either implemented the recommendations or are in the process of making the fixes necessary to alleviate the problems, sir.

That in all cases where we have had recommendations and findings, they have either been implemented or we are in the process of implementing fixes to ensure that those gaps that we had, either in policy, procedures, or leadership, are being fixed.

We, at the same time, have a number of investigations that are ongoing that should give us more answers to some of the questions that we all have about what actually went on in the Abu Ghraib prison, the most significant of which is the General Fay investigation over the MI brigade. We will continue to try and make every effort to ensure that we implement the proper procedures, policies, and practices to ensure that this never happens again, sir. Thank you, Senator Warner.

Chairman WARNER. General Taguba, we welcome you.

STATEMENT OF MG ANTONIO M. TAGUBA, USA, DEPUTY COMMANDING GENERAL FOR SUPPORT, COALITION FORCES LAND COMPONENT COMMAND

General TAGUBA. Thank you, sir.

Mr. Chairman, Senator Levin, members of the committee, good morning, all.

I am Major General Antonio M. Taguba, the Deputy Commanding General for Support, U.S. Army Central Command and Coalition Forces Land Component Command (CFLCC) that is headquartered in Camp Arifjan, Kuwait.

Let me continue, sir. On January 24, 2004, I was directed by Lieutenant General David McKiernan, the Commanding General. I sent CFLCC to conduct an investigation into the allegations of detainee abuse at Abu Ghraib prison, which is also known as the Baghdad Central Confinement Facility. I appreciate the opportunity to appear before you today to discuss the purpose, the findings, and the recommendation of that investigation.

The purpose of the investigation, with specific instructions, were as follows:

First, inquire into all of the facts and circumstances surrounding the recent allegations of detainee abuse, specifically allegations of

Second, inquire into detainee escapes and accountability lapses, as reported by CJTF-7, specifically allegations concerning these events at the Abu Ghraib prison.

Third, investigate the training, standards, employment, command policies, internal procedures, and command climate in the 800th MP Brigade, as appropriate.

Finally, make specific findings of fact concerning all aspects of this investigation, and make recommendations for corrective action, as appropriate.

My investigation team consisted of officers and senior enlisted personnel who are military policemen, experts in detention and corrections, judge advocates, psychiatrists, and public affairs officers. At the onset, I did not have MI officers or experts in military interrogation on my team, because the scope of my investigation dealt principally with detention operations and not intelligence-gathering or interrogations operations.

However, during the course of my team's investigation, we gathered evidence pertaining to the involvement of several MI personnel or contractors assigned to the 205th MI Brigade in the alleged detainee abuses at Abu Ghraib. As stated in the findings of the investigation, we recommended that a separate investigation be initiated under the provisions of Procedure 15, Army Regulation 38110, concerning possible improper interrogation practices in this case. Again, my task was limited to the allegations of detainee abuse involving MP personnel and the policies, procedures, and command climate of the 800th MP Brigade.

As I assembled the investigation team, my specific instructions to my teammates were clear: maintain our objectivity and integrity throughout the course of our mission in what I considered to be a very grave, highly sensitive, and serious situation; to be mindful of our personal values and the moral values of our Nation; to maintain the Army values in all of our dealings; and to be complete, thorough, and fair in the course of the investigation. Bottom line, we'll follow our conscience and do what is morally right.

As agonizing as this investigation was, I commend the exceptional professionalism of my teammates, their extraordinary efforts, and the outstanding manner by which they carried out my instructions. I also commend the courage and selfless service of those soldiers and sailors who brought these allegations to light, discovered evidence of abuse, and turned it over to the military law enforcement authorities. The criminal acts of a few stand in stark contrast to the high professionalism, competence, and moral integrity of countless active, Guard, and Army Reserve soldiers that we encountered in this investigation.

At the end of the day, a few soldiers and civilians conspired to abuse and conduct egregious acts of violence against detainees and other civilians outside the bounds of international law and the Geneva Conventions. Their incomprehensible acts, caught in their own personal record of photographs and video clips, have seriously maligned and impugned the courageous acts of thousands of U.S. and coalition forces. It put into question the reputation of our Nation and the reputation of those who continue to serve in uniform and who would willingly sacrifice their lives to safeguard our free

Thank you for the opportunity to speak before you today, and I look forward to answering your questions.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Chairman WARNER. Thank you very much, General. I must say that I was very heartened by your use of the phrase "Follow our conscience. Do what is morally right."

General TAGUBA. Yes, sir.

Chairman WARNER. I think you've done that.

Colleagues, we'll have a 6-minute round. We take note that votes will start at 11:30, but it's the intention of Senator Levin and myself to continue this hearing on into approximately the 12:30 to 12:45 time frame, in hopes that further opportunity can be given to members for question.

Senator INHOFE. Mr. Chairman, will there be one round?

Chairman WARNER. We'll continue until 12:45, and we'll do our best given the votes. We will try to keep the hearing going during a portion of the votes. Thank you.

Senator INHOFE. Thank you.

Chairman WARNER. Secretary Cambone, my understanding is, and in my briefings with you-and I thank you for discussing these matters with me over the weekend-that your office has the overall responsibility for policy concerning the handling of detainees in the global war on terrorism. Is that correct?

Secretary CAMBONE. Not precisely, sir. The overall policy for the handling of detainees rests with the Under Secretary of Defense for Policy by directive.

Chairman WARNER. Wait a minute. Rests with

Secretary CAMBONE. The Under Secretary of Defense for Policy by directive. My office became involved in this issue primarily from the perspective of assuring that there was a flow of intelligence back to the commands, and done in an efficient and effective way.

Chairman WARNER. Then I would presume that it would be incumbent upon this committee to get the Under Secretary for Policy over, and let him provide this committee with such knowledge that he has.

Secretary CAMBONE. Yes, sir, and that-his responsibilities-and I have talked with Mr. Feith about this-he issued any number of statements and directives, to the effect that detainees in Iraq, civilian or military, were to be treated under the provisions of the Geneva Conventions.

Chairman WARNER. Did you work with him in that?

Secretary CAMBONE. Yes, sir, I was aware of that work, and knowledgeable of it, and endorsed it, of course.

Chairman WARNER. I'm trying to ascertain the degree to which the civilian authority in the DOD, under the SECDEF, be it your self

Secretary CAMBONE. Yes, sir.

Chairman WARNER.-or the other under secretary, reviewed the procedures by which interrogations took place in our places of incarceration, and, most specifically, by those doing it in Iraq. Secretary CAMBONE. Yes, sir.

Chairman WARNER. You did review the procedures that were

Secretary CAMBONE. We gave direction that the the DOD gave direction that the Geneva Conventions were to be followed. The procedures for interrogation are established via the use of-and General Taguba and General Smith can clarify-but they are established on the basis of approved techniques for interrogation. There is a list of those, and you will find them in Army doctrine and manuals.

Chairman WARNER. Right.

Secretary CAMBONE. Those are approved for use by the commanding general. Any exceptions to those activities that he authorizes, he would then set terms and conditions for exceptions to his guidance. At the level of those techniques and so forth, they were signed out at the command level, and not in the DOD.

Chairman WARNER. Now, you've had time to reflect on this. In simple and plain words, how do you think this happened?

Secretary CAMBONE. With the caveat, sir, that I don't know the facts, it's, for me, hard to explain. I have spent a good deal of time over the last 10 days to 2 weeks looking at the various elements of this issue, and I think what we did have here was a problem of leadership with respect to the 372nd Battalion. That was the MP unit.

Chairman WARNER. Failure of leadership starting at what level? Secretary CAMBONE. That is decidedly more difficult to say, sir. Again, in simple terms, you asked. There was clear direction moving down the chain from the SECDEF to General Abizaid to General Sanchez to those people who were in charge of the MP. That, in this case, is General Karpinski. She had, I think it's eight battalions

General SMITH. Yes, sir.

Secretary CAMBONE.-eight battalions under her control, lodged at a large number of locations. She, as best I understand it, was not frequently present at Abu Ghraib.

Abu Ghraib, itself-and let's remember the time frame that we're talking about. We're coming out of the period of active combat operations. We have a large number of detainees who are being moved from a facility

Chairman WARNER. I'm going to ask you to be brief, because I'm holding myself to my time.

Secretary CAMBONE. I understand, sir-moved them from temporary facilities into permanent facilities, the places being mortared and attacked frequently. The local commander was unable to bring order to that place. For that reason, I would argue, General Sanchez looked to Colonel Pappas, the head of the 205th Military Intelligence Brigade, and gave him the responsibility, then, for taking care of Abu Ghraib as an installation.

Chairman WARNER. All right. Now, the reports that were developed by international organizations-the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) and others-in my understanding, they came to your office for an assessment and a determination as to what was to be done in response to those reports.

Secretary CAMBONE. No, the reports that are at issue here isthe ICRC, the International Committee of the Red Cross

Chairman WARNER. But you told me, I thought, over the week

Thank you for the opportunity to speak before you today, and I look forward to answering your questions.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Chairman WARNER. Thank you very much, General. I must say that I was very heartened by your use of the phrase "Follow our conscience. Do what is morally right."

General TAGUBA. Yes, sir.

Chairman WARNER. I think you've done that.

Colleagues, we'll have a 6-minute round. We take note that votes will start at 11:30, but it's the intention of Senator Levin and myself to continue this hearing on into approximately the 12:30 to 12:45 time frame, in hopes that further opportunity can be given to members for question.

Senator INHOFE. Mr. Chairman, will there be one round?

Chairman WARNER. We'll continue until 12:45, and we'll do our best given the votes. We will try to keep the hearing going during a portion of the votes. Thank

Senator INHOFE. Thank you.

you.

Chairman WARNER. Secretary Cambone, my understanding is, and in my briefings with you-and I thank you for discussing these matters with me over the weekend-that your office has the overall responsibility for policy concerning the handling of detainees in the global war on terrorism. Is that correct?

Secretary CAMBONE. Not precisely, sir. The overall policy for the handling of detainees rests with the Under Secretary of Defense for Policy by directive.

Chairman WARNER. Wait a minute. Rests with

Secretary CAMBONE. The Under Secretary of Defense for Policy by directive. My office became involved in this issue primarily from the perspective of assuring that there was a flow of intelligence back to the commands, and done in an efficient and effective way.

Chairman WARNER. Then I would presume that it would be incumbent upon this committee to get the Under Secretary for Policy over, and let him provide this committee with such knowledge that he has.

Secretary CAMBONE. Yes, sir, and that—his responsibilities—and I have talked with Mr. Feith about this-he issued any number of statements and directives, to the effect that detainees in Iraq, civilian or military, were to be treated under the provisions of the Geneva Conventions.

Chairman WARNER. Did you work with him in that?

Secretary CAMBONE. Yes, sir, I was aware of that work, and knowledgeable of it, and endorsed it, of course.

Chairman WARNER. I'm trying to ascertain the degree to which the civilian authority in the DOD, under the SECDEF, be it yourself

Secretary CAMBONE. Yes, sir.

Chairman WARNER.—or the other under secretary, reviewed the procedures by which interrogations took place in our places of incarceration, and, most specifically, by those doing it in Iraq.

Secretary CAMBONE. Yes, sir.

Chairman WARNER. You did review the procedures that were