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Just one other point I would like to mention, in winding up my testimony, Mrs. Bolton, is the statement we had on private industry. I think I sold us a little short on that. I do not think I emphasized as much as I should have what we are actually doing in the field of private industry. I would like to say, also, that Mr. Eric Johnson, who is Chairman of the President's Advisory Board on Technical Assistance, and is also a businessman and is with the motion-picture industry, partially on his own time and partially with our money, took a seven-nation tour through the Middle East in which he studied the opportunities, the temper, the possibilities of private investment in these areas; talked to businessmen, and he has come back to this country with an excellent report. He criticized us in some places, said what could be done in others, said what the prospects were for private investment in others, and I would like either the opportunity of filing for the record his report or if the committee has the time and is willing, I think he could certainly give you some excellent information on this subject, this particular subject, to the extent that private investment is a feasible way to do some of the development in these countries.

I am going to leave it to the chairman and the committee on that particular point.

Chairman CHIPERFIELD. Mr. Javits

Mr. JAVITS. Mr. Chairman, the subcommittee on Economic Policy had a series of hearings on this very subject at which Mr. Johnson testified before he left.

If it seems advisable to the Chair, I believe we would be glad to receive that report and add it to his testimony.

Mr. ANDREWS. Very well.

Mr. Judd was asking for an explanation of the airplane survey in Egypt and also the introduction of a social security group out there. I do not know whether I should answer that or wait until it comes or put it in the record.

Chairman CHIPERFIELD. You can put it in the record: (The information requested is as follows:)

1. THE AERIAL SURVEY

At the request of the Government of Egypt, TCA has agreed to provide assistance in relation to the development of natural resources. The major effort in this connection is the development of the high Aswan Dam and irrigation system. It was mutually agreed by the TCA staff in Egypt and the Government there that an aerial survey would be the most effective cooperation at this stage of development. In addition, it was recognized that such a survey would have multiple uses, including highway location, irrigation canal location, mineral deposit location, and that it would, therefore, contribute materially to the country's economic development-the primary purpose of the technical cooperation program.

2. RURAL SOCIAL CENTERS

A better name for these centers would be rural development centers, since Egypt uses them as the basic medium for providing bealth, education, and agricultural development services to the rural population. There are now 151 of these centers scattered throughout rural Egypt. Where the health, education, and agricultural extension personnel are properly trained, these centers are doing an excellent job. Unfortunately, most of them lack such personnel, and the purpose of this phase of the technical cooperation program is to provide essential training now lacking. This phase of the program will benefit every other element in the technical cooperation program in Egypt.

Mr. ANDREWs. Mrs. Bolton wanted to know about Lebanon and the housing condition there, but she is not here.

Mr. JAVITS. What are we going to do now?

Mr. ANDREWs. I will make a brief statement on the technical assistance program for the Middle East.

Mr. JAVITS. We are leaving the Near East, is that correct?
Mr. WOOD. We are in the Near East and Middle East.

Mr. JAVITS. Are we leaving the Near East at this point?

Mr. WOOD. Mr. Andrews was proposing to make a brief statement on the technical-assistance program in the Near and Middle East, in response to Mrs. Bolton's desires and those of the rest of the committee, I believe.

Mr. ANDREWS. Mrs. Bolton requested information about a training school, a nursing school in Lebanon, and also about the housing of the American personnel out there.

Mrs. BOLTON. The numbers of personnel, why they are there, and who sent them.

Mr. ANDREWS. On TCA personnel, there are 65 American families on TCA payrolls in Lebanon, chiefly housed in Beirut. About onethird of those families represent a group of engineers from the Department of the Interior who are making the basic survey on the Latonia River development which contemplates irrigation, power dams, power tunnels, out on the plain.

Mrs. BOLTON. How much time do they expect to have that take, that engineering project?

Mr. ANDREWS. It will be pretty well finished the latter part of this year.

Mrs. BOLTON. How long altogether; 2 years?

Mr. ANDREWS. Yes.

Mrs. BOLTON. Do the families have to go on that basis?

Mr. ANDREWS. That is right.

Mrs. BOLTON. The men cannot go by themselves anywhere in the world?

Mr. ANDREWS. You cannot get people to go, and frankly I would say, Mrs. Bolton, it is better to take the family along.

Mrs. BOLTON. I can understand that.

Mr. ANDREWS. The rest of them are agricultural people, health people, people requested in connection with the Lebanese program. Mrs. BOLTON. Requested by the Americans who are setting up the program?

Mr. ANDREWS. That is right.

Mrs. BOLTON. They are not requested by the Lebanese?

Mr. ANDREWS. Oh, yes. There is no technician who goes to any country without that person having been specifically requested and also his-I do not want to use the word "pedigree," but his basic technical background is submitted to the people in the government and they approve or disapprove whether he is the type of technician they want out there.

Mrs. BOLTON. I do not want to delay the committee and will make my point later.

Mr. ANDREWS. There is the question of the housing and an alleged overliving of our people there. We are just a part of the general problem, there. You have 4,000 Americans representing various

firms in Beirut. You have 500 Pan-American employes, and they along with our people are in competition for the houses that are there. Our people, the technical people, are given the same housing allowances that the normal State Department people get.

I could make some arguments for not doing that, but I imagine if I did so, I would have the idea of second-class Americans and all of those factors.

I'll admit our people did take these housing allowances and go into that market and with American dollars set a pretty stiff pace.

Mrs. BOLTON. Now, Mr. Chairman, may I just suggest this: I did ask for this information, but we have had nothing at all on the whole program and this is a small matter. This is a very small part of it and I would far rather proceed.

Mr. ANDREWS. To make a long story short, we have pooled the housing allowances and have rented a new apartment building there, rather modest, and are saving the people some money and the Government some money on carrying it through.

All right, the Lebanese program is a program which in a broad way has most of the bad features and a few of the good features of a typical, technical assistance start in a country.

When a technical group goes into a country, you will not get anywhere if you try to tell them what they want. You must start with what the country wants, itself, what the people at least think they want, and you have to start with that.

In the case of Lebanon, in the early part, the impression got out that we were coming into Lebanon with a checkbook and were ready to write a check for any sort of a project, any sort of a thing that went in there.

It took a long, long time to even find something that we felt was really worth starting on in a basic way to carry out the basic philosophy of the technical assistance program.

Chairman CHIPERFIELD. You had to look for something to do over there?

Mr. ANDREWS. Yes.

Mrs. BOLTON. Then what is the point of doing it?

Mr. ANDREWS. Lebanon had asked for technical assistance. Lebanon signed a mutual agreement for that.

Mrs. BOLTON. Why do they sign anything if they did not know what they wanted done?

Mr. ANDREWS. Well, I'll have to say, Mrs. Bolton, a lot of these countries really do not. They have some hazy idea and if I can spend just a moment here, I can tell you where this has finally come around to.

Mrs. BOLTON. Well, let us not take too many moments on stories. There have been too many of them. Let us get down to brass tacks. Mr. ANDREWS. It came to a point when Lebanon was letting us do all the work, not putting up money and not giving the support to this program that there should be.

We announced to the Lebanese Government last October that unless they were more interested in this program than they seemed to be, unless they were willing to put money into the program and put effort in, that we were pulling out our technicians as of January 15 this year, and we started to pull them out and did pull a great number of them out.

Chairman CHIPERFIELD. We never should have put them in.

Mrs. BOLTON. We should not have put them in at that rate. We should have had a project to go in to do. I would rather see us go in with 2 men rather than 65 families.

Mr. ANDREWS. I agree with you on that, and Lebanon is one of the bad points. We were too anxious to get in there in the early days. Chairman CHIPERFIELD. Who is "we"?

Mr. ANDREWS. Well, we will say Andrews. I had nothing to do with the program at that time at all. I have only been with this program 1 year, but the point of it is that this was sweeping the world, everybody was anxious to get out and do something.

Mr. SMITH. I well remember the first days when this matter of technical assistance was being considered.

It was Mr. Thorpe who came here and told us that it was a simple program and no program would be undertaken unless those who wanted them would come in and tell us what they wanted.

Chairman CHIPERFIELD. And contribute to it.

Mr. SMITH. Now apparently we have gone all over the world to look for projects.

Mr. ANDREWS. That is not true; that is not true; that is not true. Mr. SMITH. It would appear so from what you have just said. Mr. ANDREWS. They had things they wanted to do, but could we have built one of the ministers there a nice palace out next to his place that he wanted? Could we have put in the water system

Mrs. BOLTON. That is beside the point.

Mr. ANDREWS. That is what they asked for.

Mrs. BOLTON. All right. Then I think it is up to the organization in our State Department that is covering point 4 and technical assistance and economic assistance to be far smarter and to protect this country against exactly this kind of thing.

Mr. ANDREWs. Well, we did that.

Mrs. BOLTON. What it does is to bring us the unfriendly attitude of the Lebanese who have been our friends.

Mr. ANDREWS That may be right, but we refused to do that and did insist that we did have something specific to work on.

Mrs. BOLTON. We have 65 families over there in government programs and we cannot give them enough to do.

Mr. ANDREWS. Mrs. Bolton, that is wrong. They are doing things. If I can have 2 minutes, I will give you just one illustration and I think you will then see what I am talking about.

Mrs. BOLTON. A half-minute for we are using to much committee time.

Mr. ANDREWS. Well I cannot do it in a half-minute.

Mrs. BOLTON. Probably we should then drop the matter at this point.

Mr. ANDREWS. A horticulturist landed from this country on one Wednesday evening in Beirut. On Friday, he was in the field tackling a citrus problem in that country that the country had asked to have something done about.

He introduced a system of marketing and a system of packaging and grading oranges last year that brought to the citrus area of Lebanon $1.25 a crate more for their oranges on the market than they had gotten the year before. That system of marketing, that system of pick

you

ing the oranges, the system of packing has swept the country and do not have to brag about what we are doing and what they are doing, those people that is the little people; that is not the big government man-that is the technical job.

Mrs. BOLTON. That is what we consider to be point 4.

Mr. ANDREWS. That is what was done.

Mrs. BOLTON. Mr. Chairman, I will not pursue this further.

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Mr. WOOD. Mr. Andrews, I think it would be well to put now before this committee your general statement about the point 4 programwhat it consists of and what its objectives are in this area, and then answer any questions they may have about the specific details of it. That seems to me the thing to do.

Mrs. BOLTON. We have a great many things we want to ask and get cleared up before we are finished with these hearings.

Mr. ANDREWS. In a broad way, the amount of money for the Middle East and African program of technical assistance is $43,792,000— that is the technical assistance plus the supporting supplies. The supporting supplies will run on about the same ratio of 3 to 3 and 1/2 to 1, as they have in the past.

We have 564 technicians in the whole area. We have coming from that area, in the various training programs, about 484 people in the technical-assistance program.

Broadly speaking, in the broad area, they are making attacks in this program that revolve basically around agriculture and the development of the natural resources of the country.

We are in a technical way supporting the development of the Latonia, the development of the Yarmouk, and various other rivers and irrigation projects in that area.

We are not putting in American money in the the sense of any capital investment. We are doing the basic engineering to find out whether you can build a dam there or not, to find out whether you can build up a case for a loan at the International Bank and the other banks and for local financing on that.

The feasibility engineering is a big part of that.

There is also some exploration in the mineral development. For instance, out in the Jordan, the Dead Sea, there is a group of technicians there working for a contracting firm figuring out ways to take some of the rare metals as well as potash and phosphate out of the waters of the Red Sea and developing fertilizer in those areas.

There is the establishment of technical laboratories, of medical and health centers in all of these countries. Basically, water problems take the big part, methods of trying to spread water, to utilize what drops of water you have there to get the biggest crop, at the same time along with the business of getting better wheat, getting better types of grasses, better livestock, developing a food supply for the livestock they have; reforestation of some of the hills through that area, and generally trying to start with the basic developments in that country essential to it.

About 30 percent of the effort moneywise and personnelwise goes into agriculture.

About 20 percent goes into public health and about 10 percent into the educational side, and the rest goes into the development of indus

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