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would come together and have a complete, coordinated picture of the situation as it exists throughout the country.

Before distributing money to any one part without knowing what the needs are in the other sections, they would have that complete picture before them. My confidence in the judgment of our President is such that I believe he will apppoint a man who will have the skill and organizing ability to lay out the whole field and have a picture of what is actually happening and what has happened, before funds are distributed.

If it is objected, as it was the other day, that some States may be slackers, it seems to me that the plan suggested in this bill offers the very best means of preventing that, because, as you are all aware, the bill provides that the total sum shall be divided into two parts. The first part of $200,000,000 is to be distributed on a matching basis. That is, before a dollar of Federal funds is used, $3 of local funds must be used.

In other words, the Federal fund, in the first part of it, the $200,000,000, will match $600,000,000 of local funds-State and local funds. I should suppose that before any of the last part, the $300,000,000 is drawn upon, an administrator would make sure that each State had done its best under the matching plan, before he would listen to an appeal from them for an outright gift based on an alleged extreme need.

So there would be $800,000,000 spent in relief, theoretically, before the $300,000,000 would be drawn upon.

It seems to me that that is clear and is the best defense against the fear that some State or some locality may be a slacker.

When the matter of failing to do an adequate share in a locality is discussed, I think we need to remember that there are very great gradations of ability in the country. If it were alleged, Mr. Chairman, that Alabama did not raise as much for relief as California, I think everyone ought to understand that that may not be because Alabama is not as willing as California to meet local needs; but it may be due to the fact partly that the adult per capita wealth of Alabama is about one tenth that of California. South Carolina, I believe, has an adult per capita wealth of one fourteenth of that of California. So that you see there is a difference in absolute ability. The point I am trying to make is that if our States and local communities could have the benefit of leadership and financial cooperation of the Federal Government in meeting the most urgent cases of distress arising out of this depression, local funds for the support of all types of welfare work fundamentally necessary to the future progress of these communities would be released and could be contributed either through local taxes or private philanthropy, or both.

I should like to give just one example of these 150 children's societies in the country, and that is an example growing out of my own experience with the Children's Aid Society of New York, which is the organization with which I am directly connected, and where I get my livelihood.

The New York Children's Aid Society is the oldest and largest child-caring organization in the country. It was founded in 1854 and has grown until in recent years its annual budget is approximately $1,000,000.

However, for the past 3 years, we have suffered an annual defic ranging from $200,000 to $250,000. This has been due to thr

causes.

First. The income on securities which we hold has been reduced. Second. Contributions from individual givers have fallen off. Third. The demands for service to needy children have more the greatly increased.

Our interest in this bill is not that we are asking for anything an organization from this Federal fund, but our interest is due to o knowledge that local resources are not able, practically, to me local needs. Our home relief and work relief projects in New Yor City while operated on a huge scale are on a bare subsistence leve and necessarily the health, educational and recreational needs children are being neglected, because all the emphasis in our loc community is placed on the meeting of immediate hunger and lac of clothing.

Our school budget is being reduced. Members of the staff of o recreational agencies are being cut off or their salaries reduce Parks and playgrounds are being left unused because of lack of supe vision and appropriations for all these fundamental needs in chil protection are having to be reduced at a time when obviously the ought to be increased, because children are getting less protection i their own homes than ordinarily.

In our foster home care department we have the same situation This means that when a family is temporarily broken up and the bring the children to us for care, we try to put them into a foste home where they will be boarded and will receive as nearly as possibl the care that they would get in their own homes.

In ordinary times the parents pay a majority of the board of thes children. In recent years it has been dropping off until now th parents of children who are placed in our foster homes pay practicall nothing. We have to carry that load. Last year, of our deficit $200,000, almost $100,000 was due to this one cause, in this one branc of the organization.

At the same time, supporters of our work who have supported for years, are so appealed to by the drive of what has been the Gibso committee during the past 2 years and by an increase in taxes and cutting down of their income, that they are not giving the mone that we need to carry on the work.

We also carry on an extensive service for older boys, boys from 1 to 21. It may interest you to know that the New York Children Aid Society made the quickest and largest response to the reforestatio recruiting of any organization in the country. We have already en listed about 450 boys that were under our care in New York City a the time this reforestation plan was set up.

We maintain health and recreation centers, boys and girls clubs10 of them in the city, where we take care of from 12 to 15 thousan children a week. We are having to cut that down and some of thos will be closed this summer, because we have not the funds to carr them on.

We are not asking the Federal Government to furnish these funds What we do believe is that if this agency is set up to take care of th problem arising from unemployment, hunger, lack of clothing inability to pay rent, our own people will rally back to their loca

duty and will respond in a way to make it possible for us to carry the load and not neglect these children and their future needs.

I have given this description of our own work at some length, because I wanted you to see that this is just one of 150 units represented in this league that I am here to represent.

You gather from this how direct the interest of these child-caring agencies is in a measure of this kind. Whatever is said about the New York Children's Aid Society is typical of the agencies throughout the country, with one exception-and I think this is a point very worthy of consideration by your committee.

The New York Children's Aid Society is large and strong. Although its service will be limited and seriously crippled if this depression continues, we shall, in all likelihood, survive. Many similar organizations, but smaller and weaker, will not survive. They are going to be permanently broken down and standards of child care that have been gradually developed in this country over a period of 50 years will go by the boards; and when we emerge out of this depression into what we hope will be fairly normal times, all that mechanism will have to be set up again and new recruits will have to be brought into the field, and an expensive and time-consuming reorganization of child care will have to be developed.

That is all, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. WOLCOTT. Mr. Lovejoy, have you any figures as to how much money has been given the different organizations under your league, by municipalities and counties and States?

Mr. LOVEJOY. Generally through the country?

Mr. WOLCOTT. Yes.

Mr. LOVEJOY. I have not. I think Mr. Burns would have that. In our own organization we get nothing from the State or the municipality, except

Mr. WOLCOTT (interposing). I have in mind the case of the Michigan Children's Aid Society, one of your fine organizations, and one which does fine work. It takes a great many of the children from the counties, from delinquent families. In consideration of that, the counties quite often in Michigan-and I presume it is true throughout the Nation-have made appropriations in years back to the children's aid societies. I presume that you are embarrassed at the present time by reason of this aid being cut out. What I wanted to find out is, how much of that burden that has been carried locally in this case in the past will it be supposed that the Federal Government will assume in the future under the terms of this bill?

Mr. LOVEJOY. Under the terms of this bill, as I understand it, there is no specific provision made for making contributions to children's agencies for foster home care.

Mr. WOLCOTT. But my point is, the fact that these counties are not in a position now to make contributions to the children's aid societies, and because the effectiveness at least of the work of the children's aid societies will be curtailed somewhat, the burden will fall back on the municipalities and this money which we desire to appropriate for this work will go to municipalities to perform the same service that the children's aid societies have been doing. So it amounts to about the same thing. I wondered if you would be able to give us some idea of how much that would be?

Mr. LOVEJOY. I am afraid I could not tell you that. I see point that you are making, though. I think that will be true. have here some reports from various sections of the country made the office of the Child Welfare League.

This is a news release that will come out next Monday. I do know when these hearings are going to be printed; can you tell Mr. Chairman?

The CHAIRMAN. I do not know; as soon as possible.

Mr. LOVEJOY. Would they be apt to be released before Monday?

The CHAIRMAN. Oh, I hope so.

On

Mr. LOVEJOY. Then I would not be able to distribute these, bi should like to leave them with the chairman for the use of the c mittee. It gives the plight of many of these organizations. them is the Michigan Society; another is the one in Alabama; ano the one in Pennsylvania; another the one in Maryland. The si tion these organizations are in today is extremely serious and getting worse and more serious every day that passes.

Mr. FARLEY. Just a question there, Mr. Lovejoy. Did I un stand you to say that your society did not need these funds? Mr. LOVEJOY. NO.

Mr. FARLEY. You do need them?

Mr. LOVEJOY. We do need funds, from any source.

Mr. FARLEY. How will you secure funds from this appropriati the event this becomes a law?

Mr. LOVEJOY. I think, sir, that we will not receive any funds this appropriation, in our society. What we do hope is that i Jones and Mr. Smith are released from part of the pressur instance, that the next Gibson committee will bring upon the that the increased local tax burden brings-if they are relieved some of that, they will begin again to give to us, as they use It is an indirect result, so far as we are concerned, rather than a

one.

Mr. PRALL (presiding). If there are no further questions, we you, Mr. Lovejoy.

Mr. LOVEJOY. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. WADSWORTH. Mr. Chairman, how long is it expected that hearings shall continue? How many more witnesses are to be c Mr. PRALL. I have no idea.

Mr. WADSWORTH. Of course, Mr. Lewis has been here for days waiting an opportunity to be heard. He is the author bill. But, after that, I am wondering if there is much more f committee to learn.

Mr. PRALL. We shall be glad to hear Mr. Lewis now.

STATEMENT OF HON. DAVID J. LEWIS, A REPRESENTATI CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF MARYLAND

Mr. LEWIS. Gentlemen of the committee, I shall take but minutes of your time.

May I say frankly to the committee that I could not give the particular light on the technique of the bill. It happens tha not prepare the bill. It was prepared by our colleagues over Senate side and I am informed it was examined with great the President himself and has his approval, line by line.

There are just one or two thoughts that I think appropriate to the entire discussion.

I fear that the American people are not sizing up in their usual way to this problem. Certainly, if we institute comparisons with other countries of the world, we are very, very great defaulters, indeed.

This bill would carry all told some $500,000,000. That happens to be just one sixth of the amount being carried by similar public appropriations and charges in the Republic of Germany today. I have before me the figures for 1931. $1,514,800,000 was the gross sum carried in the German figures for unemployment emergency relief, invalid care, old age care, accident insurance, miners' pensions. and so forth.

Mr. WOLCOTT. Is that figure you gave marks or dollars?

Mr. LEWIS. That has been converted into dollars. The figure for marks would run up to 6,359,000,000.

Mr. KOPPLEMANN. Does that include municipalities and States? Mr. LEWIS. I do not know. Presumably a figure as large as that is all-inclusive.

Our total figures, according to Mr. Burns, in the last year was $1,000,000,000 for the United States, including all the local contributors.

Now, let us turn to England. Of course, when I was referring to Germany, the population of Germany is just about half of ours60,000,000; if you double the figure for Germany in order to make a comparison on the basis of population, the figure for Germany would be $3,000,000,000. Then, if you add-I do not know whether in these distressing times you can add-but if you do add another factor, the larger social wealth per capita of our country, before equality is reached in our respective contributions, the figure would be even more than 3 billion.

Now, take the case of Great Britain. The figures in 1931-and that was a gold year; I think perhaps the Government went off the gold standard late in September, so it can be treated entirely as a fold year-the figures there covering like kinds of social aids, converted from pounds into dollars at the ratio of $5 to the pound, were $1,158,800,000, and distributed according to population figures, you would have something like three and a half billion as the contribution to the country over which the flag of England waves.

Mr. BEEDY. If you would pardon an interruption, I should like to be clear if those figures cover appropriations made by the central governments; I mean, if you are comparing them with this sum of $500,000,000?

Mr. LEWIS. I think they are entirely national figures.

Mr. BEEDY. The question was asked whether they included State and municipal appropriations.

Mr. LEWIS. I think not, in either case.

Mr. BEEDY. And it certainly does not cover private contributions. Mr. LEWIS. In the case of England, with their unemployment insurance, there is a contribution by the workmen and a contribution by the employer. In normal times a contribution equal to one third from the Government would have met the actuarial calculations so far as the requirements were concerned. But in these depression times the Government of Great Britain has become the very heavy contributor.

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