Mr. DAVIS. I will say this, that we will be satisfied if you would just furnish the figures at which you are carrying them on your books. Mr. DoSWELL. I do not like to make specific statements as to figures. Mr. DAVIS. We will be willing to accept the figures at which you carry them on your books. You can furnish that to the chairman? Mr. DosWELL. Yes. Mr. DAVIS. That is all. The CHAIRMAN. We are very much obliged to you, Mr. Doswell. Is there anything further, Judge? Mr. DAVIS. I have a few very short witnesses. I want to call Mr. Hudson. STATEMENT OF LON HUDSON, TREASURER, COSMOPOLITAN SHIPPING CO., NEW YORK CITY Mr. DAVIS. Mr. Hudson, will you furnish your name to the stenographer, please. Mr. HUDSON. Lon Hudson. Mr. DAVIS. And state the company you are with, and the position you hold with it. Mr. HUDSON. Treasurer of the Cosmopolitan Shipping Co., New York City. Mr. DAVIS. Now just state between what American ports and what European ports your line operates ships. Mr. HUDSON. From New York, Philadelphia, Baltimore, and Boston, to Havre, Dunkirk, Bordeaux, St. Nazaire. Mr. DAVIS. France? Mr. HUDSON. France, yes. Mr. DAVIS. How many ships are you operating? Mr. HUDSON. Nine. Mr. DAVIS. They are all under the American flag? Mr. HUDSON. Yes, sir. Mr. DAVIS. Is your company operating any foreign-flag ships, either owned, chartered, or otherwise? Mr. HUDSON. No, sir. Mr. DAVIS. I will ask you if you have examined this bill under consideration, House bill 8361? Mr. HUDSON. Yes. Mr. DAVIS. Will you please state the attitude of you and your company on this bill? Mr. HUDSON. We are very much in favor of it. Mr. DAVIS. Just as it stands? Mr. HUDSON. Just as it stands. Mr. DAVIS. That is all. Mr. FREE. What particular sort of trade are you engaged in; any particular line, or just general cargo? Mr. HUDSON. We carry general cargo between North Atlantic ports and France. Mr. FREE. Do you use any chartered ships at any time? The CHAIRMAN. Are there any further questions? If not, we are very much obliged to you. Is there anyone else, Judge Davis? Judge DAVIS. I wish to call Mr. Snider, of the United States Lines. STATEMENT of G. r. SNIDER, COUNSEL FOR THE UNITED STATES LINES The CHAIRMAN. Will you give your name for the record, Mr. Snider, and indicate with whom you are associated. Mr. SNIDER. G. R. Snider; I am counsel for the United States Lines. Mr. DAVIS. Mr. Snider, the United States Lines was purchased by the present private company that owns it from the Shipping Board was it not? Mr. SNIDER. Yes, sir. Mr. DAVIS. And you have in those lines the Leviathan, the George Washington, and how many other ships that you purchased from the Shipping Board? Mr. SNIDER. Eleven all told. Mr. DAVIS. Eleven all told; does that include the merchant lines that you purchased likewise from the Shipping Board? Mr. SNIDER. Yes, sir. Mr. DAVIS. Your company is operating these 11 ships between New York and British ports and Cherbourg, France, I believe? Mr. SNIDER. And Hamburg, Germany. Mr. DAVIS. And Hamburg, Germany? Mr. SNIDER. Yes, sir. Mr. DAVIS. Does your company own or charter any foreign-flag ships? Mr. SNIDER. No, sir. Mr. DAVIS. All that you have are American-flag ships and purchased from the United States Shipping Board? Mr. SNIDER. Yes, sir. Mr. DAVIS. Is it the policy of your company to operate solely American-flag ships? Mr. SNIDER. Yes, sir. Mr. DAVIS. Now, you are familiar with the bill under consideration? Mr. SNIDER. Yes, sir. Mr. DAVIS. Will you please state the attitude of you and your company with respect to this bill? Mr. SNIDER. I am authorized to state that our company indorses the bill. Mr. FREE. You just maintain the ships on your regular routes? Mr. SNIDER. Eleven ships; yes, sir. Mr. BRIGGS. The American Merchant Line is a combination cargo and passenger line? Mr. SNIDER. Yes, sir. Mr. BRIGGS. That is all. Mr. DAVIS. Your company contemplates building some large, fast, liners, does it not? Mr. SNIDER. We are under contract with the Shipping Board to build two large liners and, if we obtain the mail contracts from the Post Office Department, are under contract to build four additional ships-two so-called cabin ships and two fast combination passenger and cargo ships. Mr. DAVIS. Now, Mr. Snider, the two ships that your company is already under contract to build will cost what, according to the estimate? Mr. SNIDER. Well, I have heard it variously estimated from $25,000,000 to $30,000,000 apiece. Mr. DAVIS. And how much is it estimated that the other four ships. will cost which you will be required to build under the requirements of the mail contract, or approximately? Mr. SNIDER. I think bids received on the two cabin ships ranged from about $9,000,000 apiece to $10,150,000 apiece. Mr. DAVIS. That is all. The CHAIRMAN. Is there anything further? If not, you are excused, Mr. Snider. Mr. DAVIS. Now I would like to call Mr. Lykes. STATEMENT OF JOSEPH T. LYKES, LYKES BROS. STEAMSHIP CO. The CHAIRMAN. Will you give your name to the reporter, Mr. Lykes. Mr. LYKES. Joseph T. Lykes, Lykes Bros. Steamship Co. Mr. DAVIS. Mr. Lykes, will you please state to the committee the number of ships your company are now operating either as owners or managing operators. Mr. LYKES. We own and operate seven ships in the Gulf-West Indies trade; we operate through the Tampa Interocean Steamship Co. some 20 vessels in the Gulf-Far Eastern and the Gulf-SpanishPortuguese trades, and we operate through Lykes Bros. Ripley Steamship Co. some 30 to 40 variable steamers in the Gulf-Continent trade. Mr. FREE. What do you mean by "variable steamers?" Mr. LYKES. They vary in number as to cargo requirements. It may be 30 to-day and, 30 days hence, it may be 35. Mr. FREE. Are those chartered ships? Mr. LYKES. Those are Shipping Board ships. Mr. DAVIS. Now do not you operate a line known as the GulfOrient Line, from the Gulf to Oriental ports? Mr. LYKES. Yes, sir. Mr. DAVIS. How many ships in that service? Mr. LYKES. Twelve. Mr. DAVIS. Now, Mr. Lykes, are you operating, either as owners or agents, or under charter, any foreign-flag ships? Mr. LYKES. No, sir. Mr. DAVIS. Is it your policy to operate foreign-flag ships? Mr. LYKES. No, sir. Mr. DAVIS. Your company did at one time operate some foreignflag ships under a charter? Mr. LYKES. Yes, sir. Mr. DAVIS. But you quite that? Mr. LYKES. Several years ago. Mr. DAVIS. NOW, Mr. Lykes, I will ask you, if you are willing to state, what the attitude of your company is with respect to buying Shipping Board services which you are now operating but which you have not yet purchased? Mr. LYKES. We have bid on and been awarded the sale of the GulfWest Mediterranean Line; we are hopeful, shortly, of taking over that service and actually having it under private operation. It is our hope and intention that we can bid, with a hope of obtaining, all of the services which we presently operate for the board. Mr. DAVIS. Now, Mr. Lykes, you are familiar with this bill under consideration, are you? Mr. LYKES. Yes, sir. Mr. DAVIS. What is your attitude with respect to it? Mr. LYKES. Having conformed to the principles already, why we can, naturally, only be favorable to the bill now. Mr. DAVIS. Well, Mr. Lykes, you are for the bill without pulling the teeth? Mr. LYKES. Yes, sir. Mr. DAVIS. Or modifications? Mr. LYKES. Yes, sir. Mr. DAVIS. A great deal has been said here about the sugar trade. I will ask you if one or more of your lines operate regularly in that service and carry the sugar during the period the sugar is moving, as well as other cargo then and during the balance of the year? Mr. LYKES. Our West Indies service is run on a regular schedule, general cargo trade, southbound; northbound we have to rely upon Cuban sugar for our revenue. Mr. DAVIS. It is a fact, is it not, that foreign-chartered ships are frequently put into that service? Mr. LYKES. Yes, sir. Mr. DAVIS. In competition with you and such other Americans as may be operating in it? Mr. LYKES. Yes. Mr. DAVIS. Does that affect you adversely when that is done? Mr. LYKES. Naturally any ship in the Cuban sugar trade is going to affect us to the degree of the number in the trade. The more there are in it the more severely we feel the competition. Mr. DAVIS. I will ask you if it is not a fact that most of the charterers, who charter foreign-flag ships and place them into that Cuban sugar trade during the sugar movement season, are American citizens chartering those vessels? Mr. LYKES. That is correct. Mr. DAVIS. Even these foreign-flag ships are not ordinarily operated in that trade by aliens; that is a fact? Mr. LYKES. There are, of course, some cases of that kind, but, largely, it is handled by American companies. Mr. DAVIS. Now reference has been made to chartering and operating foreign-flag ships in that service by the Munson Line. I will ask you what other companies engage in that to a considerable extent; what other American companies engage in that same practice to a considerable extent? Mr. LYKES. You mean operating foreign tonnage, sir? Mr. LYKES. The West India Steamship Co., I think, is one of the largest operators in that field; I think the Columbus Steamship Co. and probably the Atlantic Fruit Co. are the three that come to my mind at the moment. Mr. DAVIS. Now, so far as you know, these other companies are not receiving or seeking any mail pay; is that correct? Mr. LYKES. As far as my knowledge goes, that is correct. Mr. DAVIS. In other words, if it should happen that one of those American operators of those chartered vessels in that trade should cease to operate, there would still be plenty of ships, according to the demand and operated by American citizens, in that trade to carry the sugar, would there not? Mr. LYKES. Such as the demand was there for the trade, it would be met. Mr. DAVIS. That is all. Mr. FREE. Mr. Lykes, how seasonal is that sugar movement? By that, I mean does it have to be carried within a certain space of time? Mr. LYKES. Ordinarily, yes, sir; beginning, say, the latter part of December, in former years, I think. There was some Cuban Government decree and now the mills do not grind before the first of January and beginning then, say in January, it runs seven or eight months; but the heaviest season is the winter months. Mr. FREE. During that period, does it require additional boats besides those operating on regular lines to carry it during that season? Mr. LYKES. I would say, under existing conditions, there is a larger need of regular cargo ships to handle it, yes. Mr. FREE. Now, if United States ships were not available, what ships would be available to the United States to help out in that movement? Mr. LYKES. In other words, if American ships are not available? Mr. FREE. No. As I understand it, most of you who need seasonal ships get them now from the Shipping Board. Mr. LYKES. Yes, sir. Mr. FREE. Now, when that fleet is gone, what would you do to take care of that exceptional trade, where you have commodities like in the sugar trade? Mr. LYKES. Well, unless they could get some limited supply, probably from the coastwise services, they would have to get foreign. Mr. ABERNETHY. Are there enough American-flag ships at the present time to take care of that seasonal trade? Mr. LYKES. Well, that is a pretty hard question to answer, sir. I would say, regularly employed in the trade, there are not sufficient American ships in that trade to handle it. Mr. BRIGGS. Mr. Lykes, do you mean by that that with the surplus the Shipping Board has for charter, that you could not Mr. LYKES. No, I was excluding them. Mr. ABERNETHY. I mean the Shipping Board ships. We have enough ships, including what the Shipping Board has, to take care of it, have we not? Mr. LYKES. I dare say, but I am not posted on the particular type of ships; I do not know what number the board has yet unsold. Of course, they require small ships in that trade. Mr. BRIGGS. Mostly Lake-type ships? |