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Mr. COLLINS. No. We do not have those figures.

Mr. KELLY. Of course, a great many of your men work 12 or 18 hours in their runs?

Mr. COLLINS. In their regular runs they will run from 10 to 16 or 17 hours consecutively.

Mr. WOLVERTON. Is the rate of pay, for overtime any more than for regular time?

Mr. COLLINS. No. We have straight time, as we call it, for service in excess of eight hours.

Now, to give this relief and to bring these men down to the limit. established in this bill does not require pay for the full four hours per week, because of the average in our work being less than eight hours. So, in the case of class B trains, that now average 7 hours and 44 minutes, you must bring them down to an average of 7 hours and 20 minutes at least. There is a cost of 24 minutes a day on the average. There are some 12,000 of these men-12,641 men, to be exact-in that group. You can arrive at a definite cost for that

relief.

The same is true in the other assignments. The men in the class A road assignments would have to be relieved on an average of at least 18 minutes a day; and you can determine that cost.

When we come to the terminal men, who now work upon an 8-hour-within-10 basis on six days a week, you have another condition with a cost that may not be so definite. While the terminal clerks are under the same law as the post-office clerks so far as compensatory time for Sunday work is concerned, the calendar Sunday is not recognized. In that branch of the service we have a theoretical Sunday. Sunday in our terminal is rather a heavy day. So the men work on Sunday regularly and may be given Monday off or Tuesday or Wednesday; and that day is their theoretical Sunday. That is according to a decision of the Comptroller of the Treasury made within 30 days after the 1918 law was passed, and which decision placed these terminal men under the same law as the postoffice clerks had previous to that time. And so we have a theoretical Sunday.

I assume that in applying this measure to the terminal clerks we would also have a theoretical Saturday. If so, the day before their regular day off, whatever it may be, would be the day that they would be given this four hours' relief. In the operation of this service those are the lighter days of the week. To a great extent this relief will be granted without any additional cost. That will be administrative. It is similar to what the letter carrier now has. Much of the relief or all of the relief to them involves no cost to them.

But even with a maximum cost of four hours per week to each terminal man and transfer clerk, if that were done, it would involve a cost of not more than approximately $800,000 or slightly under.

Mr. WATRES. How many men are there in that particular group? Mr. COLLINS. There are about 3,800 terminal clerks and nine hundred something transfer clerks, and I might say another 5,000 men in the terminal and transfer offices.

Mr. ROмJUE. Am I correct in understanding that railway mail clerks are not under the direction of any local postmaster, but are under the superintendents of the Railway Mail Service?

Mr. COLLINS. Absolutely.

The field supervisors of the Railway Mail Service have full charge of these employees.

Mr. ROMJUE. Does he have charge of the transfer clerks and terminal clerks as well?

Mr. COLLINS. Yes sir.

Mr. ROмJUE. Does he direct their work?

Mr' COLLINS. Yes.

Mr. KELLY. I remember that when I was preparing the report for the last Congress for the 44-hour week, I went as carefully as I could into the cost of the Railway Mail Service. The department gave that as $3,700,000. I gave some time to a compilation of that cost, and I estimated around 2,000,000.

How does that compare on the basis that you are going on?

Mr. COLLINS. The estimate of the cost of the night differential was $3,700,000 by the department. The cost as submitted by myself to the committee was $2,100,000, and I also advised the committee that in my opinion the cost would be not over $2,000,000, although my own figures were slightly over that.

The actual cost last year on the first full year that we have had the night differential in the Railway Mail Service was $1,985,352, slightly under $2,000,000, which was slightly more than one-half of the department's estimate.

So the figures that I submit as to the actual cost based upon the actual number of clerks and the actual relief that would have to be granted, giving a credit for additional pay for delayed train service, which they do not now pay for, as it is charged against the shortage in the 8-hour day, the cost of relieving the class B clerks on the road and the class A clerks on the road, and allowing 25 per cent of the estimated cost of relieving the terminal and transfer clerks, and allowing a cost of $40,000 for additional pay on account of delayed trains and that is quite definite, because that is just about what they do not now pay for, which they can charge against deficiencies which would not exist under this basis-gives a total cost of $1,870,061. That is in my opinion very close to what the actual cost would be in applying such a measure to the Railway Mail Service.

Now, I don't want to take up any more time of the committee, except to answer questions.

The CHAIRMAN. Has anybody any questions to ask? Thank you very much.

STATEMENT OF HON. ANTHONY J. GRIFFIN, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF NEW YORK

Mr. GRIFFIN. Mr. Chairman, may I have permission at this time to note my appearance in favor of the proposition involved in these bills? I have received numerous letters and requests and telegrams in favor of the bill, and I hope you will see your way clear to report favorable legislation to accomplish the desired results.

STATEMENT OF MARY V. HALAS, PRESIDENT OF THE WOMAN'S AUXILIARY, NATIONAL FEDERATION OF POST OFFICE CLERKS

Mrs. HALAS. Mr. Chairman and members of the committee, I am Mrs. Mary V. Halas, president of the Woman's Auxiliary of the National Federation of Post Office Clerks.

My woman's intuition tells me that we have about won our case to-day with our presentations, and I think it a matter of tact for me. not to take up your time. I just would like to summarize the situation thusly: That the modern trend of industry has been toward a fuller and more wholesome life for its workers. This has been brought about by better wages, shorter hours, and better working conditions generally for the workers throughout the country, both in clerical and industrial capacities.

In each instance our United States Government, which is the richest and largest employer of the world, has kept pace with the trend of modern industry, its postal workers only through the initiative of the organizations of the postal employees themselves and the wisdom of Members of Congress. Always we have been tardy in keeping pace with this trend of modern industry; practically always it has been attained despite the opposition of the administrative forces.

We are asking to-day only to catch up again with modern industry by granting us the weekly half holiday which is so generally accepted throughout the country, and which has proved to be sound, both from an economic and sociological point of view.

On behalf of the women relatives of these postal clerks I want to say that we want this bill very much, for it will round out our family life as it is not rounded out to-day, because we are not enjoying what our neighbors and friends are enjoying in the weekly half holiday of their men workers. [Applause.]

STATEMENT OF THOMAS A. COUGHLIN, PRESIDENT OF THE NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF POST OFFICE AND RAILWAY MAIL LABORERS

Mr. COUGHLIN. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen, I wish to thank you for this opportunity of being heard in defense of a bill which I think is only fair and just to the postal employees.

The movement for a shorter work day on Saturday is nothing new, as most of the trades have not a shorter work day on Saturday, but a 5-day week; and here we are not asking for a 5-day week, but simply a shorter work day on Saturday.

As different reports show, a great majority of business houses and offices close at 12 or 1 o'clock, and in Boston the department stores close all day Saturday during the summer. To keep a large force of men on duty under these conditions is costly, as a smaller force could handle this work. The employees of the State all have the Saturday half day; and, gentlemen, we pray that you will give us the relief we seek. I thank you.

The CHAIRMAN. Are there any other gentlemen who wish to be heard?

STATEMENT OF T. W. STRICKLAND, SECRETARY RAILWAY MAIL ASSOCIATION

Mr. STRICKLAND. Mr. Chairman, I didn't intend to make any statement at all, because the ground has been very thoroughly covered by Mr. Collins of our association. But this morning, just before I came up here, I received from the Postmaster General of Canada the regulations governing postal workers there, and I think it is very pertinent to consider them in connection with this question.

I am not going to take the time of the committee to read these regulations. They are quite long. But it is, I believe, sufficient to say that in Canada they have a 44-hour week for postal workers.

Mr. SPROUL. When was that granted to the Canadian workers? Mr. STRICKLAND. Something like eight years ago. It is granted to them under such rules and regulations as the Civil Service Commission and the Postmaster General may prescribe. The rules that the Postmaster General of Canada have sent me are those that were issued in April, 1929.

I want to read just briefly the essential parts of these official regulations of Canada:

Postal employees are required to work 44 hours a week, or equivalent time when holidays occur, with the exception of five weeks during each year, when they are required to work 48 hours. The letter-carrier staff will be required to work this 48-hour week, or equivalent time when holidays occur, as follows: Three weeks during the Christmas rush period, the week prior to Easter, and the week prior to Thanksgiving Day. Other employees will be required to work these 48 hours, or equivalent time when holidays occur, during any five weeks throughout the year, at the discretion of the postmaster. As far as practicable, the daily period of service should be arranged in not more than two periods and within a spread of 10 hours.

Then it goes on to describe the Sunday time and so on.

I might say that in Canada seven hours of night work is the equivalent of eight hours day work, and overtime is compensated at the rate of time and a half.

Then it goes on and gives all the various rules and regulations for applying this, and examples and things of that kind. But I don't believe that is necessary. These are the official regulations of Canada, with the seal of the Canadian Government on it. I thought it might be interesting and of value to this committee to know that in a sister country bordering us to the north they have established this 44-hour week, and they have worked it out successfully. Certainly if Canada can do that sort of thing, we can do it in this country. Mr. SPEARING. Do you know how the postal rates and revenues of Canada compare with those of the United States?

Mr. STRICKLAND. I am not prepared to discuss that proposition. I did not go into that.

Mr. WOLVERTON. Are you acquainted with the wage scale of that country?

Mr. STRICKLAND. The wage scale is somewhat less than in this country.

The CHAIRMAN. Are there any other gentlemen who would like to be heard?

STATEMENT OF HARRY F. FOLGER, PRESIDENT OF THE NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF POSTAL SUPERVISORS

Mr. FOLGER. I do not come before you to submit a brief or present any special data on what the actual cost of a 44-hour week would be. I merely ask you to include the postal supervisors in whatever bill you include or take in the balance of the other postal workers throughout the country. We feel that we are not covered by the 8-hour law. We are not paid for overtime. If you can do anything to take care of us on the half holiday on Saturday, we respectfully ask you to do that for us. I have nothing further to say, gentlemen. The CHAIRMAN. Are there any questions?

Mr. KENDALL. How many postal supervisors are there in the United States?

Mr. FOLGER. There are a little over 8,000. There are 7,000 members in this organization.

The CHAIRMAN. Are there any other gentlemen to be heard?

STATEMENT OF HON. JOHN W. McCORMACK, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF MASSACHUSETTS

Mr. McCORMACK. Mr. Chairman and members of the committee, I heartily favor the bills under consideration by the committee providing for a shorter Saturday workday in the Postal Service, and respectfully urge favorable consideration and an early report. I consider the postal employees very properly are asking the Congress to reduce their working schedules from 48 hours to 44 hours weekly. The nature of work performed by postal employees is severe and constitutes a great strain on the human system. The high rate of efficiency maintained by the department is amazing and, naturally, pleasing, and this is due to the sincerity and accuracy with which the work is done by those in the Postal Service. Congress has already recognized, by the provisions of the retirement law whereby persons in the Postal Service can retire at an earlier age than practically all other Federal employees, that the nature of the work is arduous. I consider such recognition as an important piece of evidence, and it should receive great weight.

There is much more than could be said that I will not refer to at this time. The whole subject was ably discussed by the distinguished gentleman from New York (Mr. Mead) in an eloquent speech delivered in the House on January 23, 1930. I subscribe to his brilliant presentation of the facts and the reasons advanced by him for the enactment of such legislation into law.

The CHAIRMAN. I have a telegram here addressed to Hon. Willis G. Sears, Congressman from Nebraska. It reads:

We earnestly urge that you appear at post-office committee hearing Wednesday, February 12, in support of H. R. 6603, Kendall 44-hour-week bill, and other postal legislation,

JOINT LEGISLATIVE COMMITTEE,

L P. DYHRBERG,

Chairman Clerks, Mail Carriers, and Railway Mail Service.

Congressman Cochran, of St. Louis, Mo.. wishes to express himself on the record as being in favor of this bill.

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