conference over this entire period. We have developed a team feeling on it which would be hard to supplant with other counsel. But naturally I don't expect that the unavailability of my counsel for an indefinite time should be taken by this committee as a reason for not calling me at all. I realize that. Mr. WALTER. Mr. Chairman, may I ask a question? Mr. VELDE. Mr. Walter. Mr. WALTER. What do you mean by "skull practice"? You weren't arranging some sort of an act to put on, were you? Mr. GLASSER. Skull practice, sir, is a term from football. Mr. WALTER. Yes; I understand that very well. Mr. GLASSER. And I meant we were preparing. Mr. VELDE. Well, Mr. Glasser, the committee has always, with every witness, granted the right to that witness to have counsel to appear and consult with the witness, and in this particular case we will grant you the same privilege which has in the past been granted. So, this meeting is adjourned until next Wednesday, at which time your subpena is continued. Mr. GLASSER. May I ask a question, Mr. Chairman? May I ask a question, or are you already adjourned? Mr. GLASSER. My question is this: Mr. Boudin furnished to the committee's counsel earlier this week a final page proof of a statement that was prepared by him concerning my case, and filed by him. Now, I have with me the final print in numerous copies of that statement. If there is some way, through my hand, that statement could be made available to this committee, without the significance in the legal sense being attached thereto that I am making a submission or an averment, then, on behalf of Mr. Boudin, I would like to supply the committee with the statement. Mr. VELDE. Well, Mr. Glasser, that statement you refer to will be considered by the committee when you appear here ready to testify with counsel. Mr. GLASSER. I merely meant, sir, as of this moment the committee is in possession of only one copy. I would like, if it is possible, as I said, to arrange giving the committee additional copies without that being construed as an act by me, an act of testifying. You see, sir, I wanted to ask to do this before I took the oath. Mr. VELDE. We will hear no more of your testimony until next Wednesday, and until that time the meeting is adjourned. (Whereupon, at 10:56 a. m., the hearing was recessed until 10 a. m., Friday, March 13, 1953.) COMMUNIST METHODS OF INFILTRATION (Education-Part 2) FRIDAY, MARCH 13, 1953 UNITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, COMMITTEE ON UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES, PUBLIC HEARING The Committee on Un-American Activities met, pursuant to recess, at 10:33 a. m., in room 429, Old House Office Building, Honorable Harold H. Velde (chairman) presiding. Committee members present: Represenatives Harold H. Velde (chairman), Bernard W. Kearney, Donald L. Jackson, Kit Clardy, Gordon H. Scherer (appearance noted in transcript), Francis E. Walter, and Clyde Doyle. Staff members present: Robert L. Kunzig, counsel; Louis J. Russell, chief investigator; Raphael I. Nixon, director of research; James A. Andrews and Earl L. Fuoss, investigators; and Thomas W. Beale, Sr., chief clerk. Mr. VELDE. The meeting will come to order. Mr. KUNZIG. Mr. Darling. Would you be sworn, Mr. Darling, please? Mr. VELDE. Raise your right hand. In the testimony you are about to give before this committee, do you solemnly swear you will tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? Mr. DARLING. I do. Mr. KUNZIG. Mr. Darling Mr. VELDE. Let the record show at this point a quorum of the committee is present, consisting of Mr. Kearney, Mr. Jackson, Mr. Clardy, Mr. Walter, Mr. Doyle, and the chairman. TESTIMONY OF BYRON THORWELL DARLING, ACCOMPANIED BY Mr. KUNZIG. Mr. Darling, will you state your full name? Mr. KUNZIG. Would counsel please identify himself? Mr. FORER. Joseph Forer, 711 14th Street NW., Washington, D. C. Mr. KUNZIG. Mr. Darling, what is your present address? Mr. DARLING. My present address is 1870 North Fourth Street, Columbus, Ohio. Mr. KUNZIG. And when and where were you born? Mr. DARLING. I was born in Napoleon, Ohio, on January 4, 1912. Mr. KUNZIG. What is your present occupation? Mr. DARLING. I am at present a theoretical physicist at Ohio State University. Mr. KUNZIG. Are you a teacher there, professor? Mr. DARLING. Professor. Mr. KUNZIG. Would you furnish the committee with a résumé of your educational background? Mr. DARLING. Starting Mr. KUNZIG. About high school. (Representative Gordon H. Scherer entered the hearing room at this point.) Mr. DARLING. Well, I graduated from high school in-from Crane Technical High School in Chicago in 1929; and in 1930 I went to the University of Illinois and was a student there until 1936; and then I went to the University of Michigan and was a student there until 1938; and then I went to the University of Wisconsin and was a student there from 1938 to 1939, at which time I returned to the University of Michigan and received my doctor's degree; and then I was an instructor, mathematics, at Michigan State College from 1940 to 1941. Mr. KUNZIG. Now, may I interrupt right there and say: Would you tell the committee why you terminated your employment with Michigan State College? (At this point Mr. Darling conferred with Mr. Forer.) Mr. DARLING. Well, I realized that we were about to become involved in a war and I went to work in industry. Mr. KUNZIG. While employed at Michigan State, did you engage in the distribution of Communist Party literature? Mr. DARLING. I refuse to answer the question, basing myself on the rights under the first amendment and the privilege under the fifth amendment. Mr. VELDE. What privilege do you refer to in the fifth amendment? Mr. DARLING. In the fifth amendment? Mr. VELDE. Yes. Mr. DARLING. I refer to the fact that a witness may not give testimony against himself. Mr. KUNZIG. Well, now, when you left Michigan State, did the fact that it had been alleged that you distributed Communist Party literature have anything to do with your leaving? Mr. DARLING. I refuse to answer that question for the same reason. Mr. CLARDY. Counsel, I have a question at that juncture, if I may. Mr. VELDE. Mr. Clardy. Mr. CLARDY. Isn't it true, Witness, that subsequent to your leaving you sought to obtain a recommendation from the college at East Lansing and they refused to give you such recommendation? (At this point Mr. Darling conferred with Mr. Forer.) Mr. DARLING. Well, I don't recall. Mr. CLARDY. You don't recall making the application for a recommendation? Mr. DARLING. No; I don't-would you state that-what recommendation is that again? Mr. CLARDY. When you sought to obtain a teaching job at some place after you left the college at East Lansing, Michigan State College, did you not ask someone at East Lansing for a character or other reference as to your teaching ability so that you might obtain job somewhere else, and was that not refused to you? (At this point Mr. Darling conferred with Mr. Forer.) Mr. DARLING. I don't remember. Mr. KEARNEY. Witness, you understand you are under oath? Mr. DARLING. Yes. Mr. KEARNEY. And can you answer the Congressman's question definitely? Mr. DARLING. The best I can say is that I don't recall. Mr. CLARDY. No recollection of it whatever? Mr. DARLING. No recollection of it. Mr. CLARDY. Then you wouldn't at present deny the fact that it was refused to you? You wouldn't make a categorical denial at this moment? (At this point Mr. Darling conferred with Mr. Forer.) Mr. DARLING. No; of course not. Mr. CLARDY. What is that? Mr. DARLING. No. Mr. VELDE. Proceed, Mr. Counsel. Mr. KUNZIG. Well, then, Mr. Darling, we were up to Michigan State. Would you carry on from there to your employment and your teaching? Mr. DARLING. Well, after the-the next I went to the University of Wisconsin in 1946, and was there until February 1947; and then I went to the Yale University until the end of the semester. Mr. KUNZIG. And where Mr. DARLING. And then, after that, I came to Ohio State University to teach. Mr. KUNZIG. And you are still at Ohio State? Mr. DARLING. I am still at Ohio State University. Mr. KEARNEY. Were you ever discharged from any university at which you taught for alleged Communist activities? Mr. DARLING. I refuse to answer that question for the aforementioned reason. (At this point Mr. Darling conferred with Mr. Forer.) Mr. KUNZIG. Were you ever connected with the Pennsylvania State College in a war-training program? Mr. FORER. Excuse me just a moment. Mr. KUNZIG. I'm sorry. Go right ahead. (At this point Mr. Darling conferred with Mr. Forer.) Mr. DARLING. I'd like to change my answer to that last question and state that to the best of my knowledge I never was. Mr. KEARNEY. Never was what? Mr. DARLING. Would you put the question again? Mr. KUNZIG. Shall we have it repeated? Mr. KEARNEY. Yes. Mr. KUNZIG. Will you read the question? (The reporter read the question as follows: "Were you ever discharged from any university at which you taught for alleged Communist activities?") Mr. KUNZIG. My next question is—— Mr. VELDE. Just a minute. Let the witness answer this question. Mr. KUNZIG. Pardon me, sir. |