Mr. SCHERER. Do you feel that he should be a teacher in our colleges? Mr. BOORSTIN. In any area where I have any expert competence, that is, in the area of the humanities and social sciences, my answer would be no.

Mr. CLARDY. For the same reasons you gave to me a moment ago? Mr. BOORSTIN. Yes, sir.

Mr. WALTER. But, Doctor, don't you recognize the fact that students have such a high regard, even awe, for professors, and take a professor of trigonometry, for example, that it would create such an impression on a young man that if he were to indicate something or other that was not proper-something political-wouldn't that young man be apt to accept the suggestions made by that professor? And suppose that that professor engaged in any extracurricular activities?

The fact that he had created an impression on his students I should think would make him a very strong force in the community in which he did lecture, among other things.

Mr. BOORSTIN. Mr. Walter, my feeling about the matter is that no one should be employed to teach in a university who was not free intellectually; and in my opinion membership in the Communist Party would be virtually conclusive evidence that a person was not intellectually free.

Mr. SCHERER. He would also believe in the overthrow of the American Government by force and violence if he was an active Communist Party member, as I asked, wouldn't he?

Mr. BOORSTIN. It is my impression that the Supreme Court has held that leadership in the Communist Party is participation in a conspiracy.

Mr. CLARDY. It was Hitler's theory to seize the minds of the youth by the method we have been talking about; was it not?

Mr. BOORSTIN. Yes, sir.

Mr. CLARDY. That is one of the reasons why I take it you have answered as you did to the good questions asked by Mr. Walter!

Mr. BOORSTIN. Yes, sir.

Mr. TAVENNER. I understood you to say that since 1944 you have been engaged in teaching at the University of Chicago?

Mr. BOORSTIN. Yes, sir.

Mr. TAVENNER. Have you had any affiliation of any character with the Communist Party while at the University of Chicago?

Mr. BOORSTIN. No, sir.

Mr. TAVENNER. While at Chicago you have written the books and have taken the action that you have described as being in opposition to the Communist Party?

Mr. BOORSTIN. Yes, sir.

Mr. TAVENNER. Are there any other activities that you have engaged in since being at Chicago which would be in opposition to the Communist Party, and of which you have not told us?

Mr. BOORSTIN. Not that I can recall, sir. I am not basically a political person and I am not active politically. I do feel that the most effective way to fight communism is-the one effective way in which I may have some competence is by helping people to understand the virtues of our institutions and their special values as those emerged from our history, and I have tried to do that.

Mr. TAVENNER. I want to see if I understand you correctly in your answers to various questions by members of the committee.

Do I correctly understand that you are definitely of the opinion that no person should be employed as a teacher in our educational system who is subject to the discipline and the directives of the Communist Party because they are not free to act? Is that in substance your view?

Mr. BOORSTIN. I think a member of the Communist Party should not be employed by a university. I would not hire such a person if I were a university president.

Mr. VELDE. I think, Mr. Counsel, the witnesses has made himself clear on that point. Let us proceed along further.

Mr. TAVENNER. I have no further questions, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. VELDE. Mr. Kearney.

Mr. KEARNEY. Just two questions. How old were you when you were in Oxford?

Mr. BOORSTIN. About 21.

Mr. KEARNEY. How old were you when you joined the Communist Party at Harvard?

Mr. BOORSTIN. About 23 or 24.

Mr. KEARNEY. That is all.

Mr. CLARDY. Mr. Chairman.

Mr. VELDE. Mr. Clardy.

Mr. CLARDY. Witness, as I understand it, it is obviously your conclusion now that the work this committee is undertaking is serving a good purpose, but I would like to have you tell us whether you do actually agree.

Mr. BOORSTIN. Well, I think this is the second day of the public hearings and I think that the committee should be judged by the record which it makes.

Mr. CLARDY. If we continue on the line we have followed would you agree with us and the witness yesterday that it does serve a useful purpose?

Mr. BOORSTIN. It is not for me to judge, sir. I have had little experience with legislation. I can't see I can't myself think of any legislation that would serve these purposes at the moment, but I am not expert in this field and I am afraid I just wouldn't be able to help you.

Mr. CLARDY. To carry it one step further in the same general direction then, has there been anything that you have heard thus far, either in your own examination or that of Mr. Davis of yesterday, that in any way impinged upon this vague thing we call academic freedom, in your judgment?

Mr. BOORSTIN. The committee has been extremely courteous to me, sir.

Mr. CLARDY. Well, answer my question directly, if

you can.

Mr. BOORSTIN. This committee has not in any way impinged on my academic freedom. No, sir.

Mr. CLARDY. I think that is all I have.

(Representatives Francis E. Walter and James B. Frazier, Jr.. left the hearing room.)

Mr. VELDE. Mr. Scherer.

Mr. SCHERER. I have no questions.

Mr. VELDE. Mr. Moulder.

Mr. MOULDER. I have no further questions.

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Mr. VELDE. Dr. Boorstin, you also have contributed greatly to the fund of knowledge that this committee has in turning to the activities of the Communist Party in England and the Communist Party of the United States; and the activities of the Soviet Government generally to overthrow our form of government.

I would like to thank you for coming before the committee and if you return to the University of Chicago, which happens to be in my home State, I am sure you will be able to give your students and pupils some of the same information which you have given to this committee so ably, and that you will be able to convince the students who are in your classes, and with whom you come in contact, that the Soviet Government is out to destroy our form of government.

Thank you kindly.

(Whereupon the witness was excused.)

Mr. TAVENNER. Dr. Wendell H. Furry.

Mr. VELDE. The committee will stand in recess for 5 minutes. (Whereupon a recess was had.)

Mr. VELDE. The committee will be in order.

Mr. Counsel, who is the next witness, please?

(Representative Francis E. Walter returned to hearing room.) Mr. TAVENNER. Dr. Wendell H. Furry, please.

Mr. VELDE. Will you stand to be sworn?

In the testimony you are about to give before this committee do you solemnly swear that you will tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?

Mr. FURRY. I do.

Mr. VELDE. Let the record show at this point that Mr. Kearney, Mr. Clardy, Mr. Scherer, Mr. Moulder, and the chairman are present-a full quorum-and also Mr. Walter is present.

TESTIMONY OF WENDELL HINKLE FURRY, ACCOMPANIED BY HIS COUNSEL, JOSEPH FORER

Mr. TAVENNER. What is your full name, please?

Mr. FURRY. Wendell Hinkle Furry.

Mr. TAVENNER. Will you spell both first and last names?

Mr. FURRY. W-e-n-d-e-l-1 F-u-r-r-y.

Mr. TAVENNER. Are you represented or accompanied by counsel?
Mr. FURRY. I am, sir.

Mr. TAVENNER. Will counsel please identify himself for the record?
Mr. FORER. Joseph Forer, 711 14th Street NW., Washington, D. C.
Mr. TAVENNER. When and where were you born, please, sir?
Mr. FURRY. On February 18, 1907, in Prairieton, Ind.

Mr. TAVENNER. What is your present occupation?

Mr. FURRY. Associate professor of physics at Harvard University. Mr. TAVENNER. Would you state for the committee, please, what your educational training has been?

Mr. FURRY. Public schools and high school until 1924; Depauw University, Greencastle, Ind., 1924-28; University of Illinois, 192832; received a degree of doctor of philosophy in 1932; 2 years as National Research Council fellow at the University of California and California Institute of Technology ending in 1934.

Mr. TAVENNER. Would you state briefly what your record of employment has been since the completion of your formal education?

Mr. FURRY. Instructor of physics at Harvard University, 1934– 37; assistant professor, 1937-40; associate professor, 1940 to present, except for 2 years' leave of absence during the war.

Mr. TAVENNER. What were the years when you were given a leave of absence?

Mr. FURRY. In the fall of 1943 to the fall of 1945.

Mr. TAVENNER. Were you a member of the Armed Forces during that period of time?

Mr. FURRY. I was not.

Mr. TAVENNER. Were you on any particular assignment or duty with the Government during that period of time?

Mr. FURRY. I was not employed by the Government.

Mr. TAVENNER. Were you under any assignment performing any services for the Government, whether employed by it or not?

Mr. FURRY. I was employed by the Massachusetts Institute of Technology as a research associate under a contract with the National Defense Research Committee.

Mr. TAVENNER. Where were your services performed?

Mr. FURRY. In the buildings of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, in the so-called radiation laboratory.

Mr. TAVENNER. During that period did you have occasion to go to the west coast in connection with your official duties?

Mr. FURRY. I did not. My duties never took me to the west coast.

Mr. TAVENNER. Will you state, please, for the committee, what fraternal or professional organizations you are a member of?

Mr. FURRY. The Harvard Faculty Club; the American Physical Society; the American Association of Physics Teachers-I am afraid my dues are in arrears-the American Association for the Advancement of Science; the American Association of Scientific Workersdues also in arrears, I believe; and at the moment I can't think of any others.

Mr. TAVENNER. How long have you been a member of the American Association of Scientific Workers?

Mr. FURRY. Well, I think up to the last year or two I have kept my dues paid up. Ever since the organization was formed in 1937 or 1938. Mr. WALTER. Are you a member of the Teachers' Union?

Mr. FURRY. I was. That is now nonexistent at Harvard.

Mr. WALTER. During what period were you a member of the Teachers' Union?

Mr. FURRY. I believe I joined that in either 1937 or 1938, and I withdrew in a friendly way while I was at Massachusetts Institute of Technology during the war. I may have paid a year or two dues after I came back to Harvard after the war.

Mr. CLARDY. What year was that you said you withdrew?

Mr. FURRY. In 1943. I withdrew from both the Harvard Faculty Club and the Teachers' Union at Harvard when I was at MIT. Mr. CLARDY. But you were at MIT at the time?

Mr. FURRY. Yes.

Mr. SCHERER. Would you mind telling us what the nature of your work was at MIT, Doctor?

Mr. FURRY. This was a radar laboratory. I was a member of the radar group which was supposed to work on the various theoretical

problems which came up in connection with electromagnetic phenomena used in radar. My particular work was practically entirely concerned with the propagation of radio waves in the atmosphere.

Mr. SCHERER. Did it have anything to do with the war effort or defense effort at that time?

Mr. FURRY. It was intended to. The problems were extremely difficult. We accomplished a good deal, but I don't believe anybody concerned with it would have said we arrived at a solution that was of complete practical usefulness at the time that our efforts ceased at the end of the war.

Mr. SCHERER. The conclusions you reached in that study-were they transmitted to the Government of the United States?

Mr. FURRY. Of course they were. They were also published in a book published by the McGraw-Hill Publishing Co. and sold for $10.

Mr. TAVENNER. Will you describe to the committee, please, just what the course of your duties were while an instructor at Harvard when you began back, I believe, in 1934. You were an instructor, and what other duties did you have?

Mr. FURRY. I was instructor and tutor. This means that under the tutorial system which existed in Harvard at that time I held individual conferences with students on reading that was supposed to be outside their formal course work, but on the general subject of physics. This went on for 2 or 3 years.

I didn't derive very much satisfaction out of it. Like very many other people in the physical sciences in Harvard, I didn't find much satisfaction in this particular sort of thing. Either the poorer students got obviously nothing out of it, or the better students were so busy trying to make good grades in their courses that they found it only a difficulty to have this. The department eventually dropped this sort of thing.

Mr. TAVENNER. When did it drop that type of work?

Mr. FURRY. I don't exactly remember. Certainly it dropped it— first it cut it down, of course, and then by the time I got back after the war, it was gone, and nobody was sorry.

Mr. TAVENNER. Would you say that that system continued up until the time that you went to the Massachusetts Institute of Technology? Mr. FURRY. I don't believe it did in our department.

Mr. TAVENNER. How close to the time when you went to the Massachusetts Institute of Technology did that continue?

Mr. FURRY. Well, sir, I honestly don't know. This could be, of course, established from Harvard University records.

Mr. TAVENNER. We want you to help us as far as you can.

Mr. FURRY. Yes. I would say that probably by 1938 or 1939 the thing was on its last legs in our department.

Mr. TAVENNER. After that time were you a counselor of any type to students?

Mr. FURRY. Well, everybody-almost everybody on the faculty has a number of students assigned to him with whom he consults on the choice of courses. This is called an adviser and this is the only function of the adviser-to discuss what the choice of courses to be taken by the student should be. This usually involves an interview in the fall and another interview during the time of the second half year about the choice of courses.