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Mr. TAVENNER. Will you tell the committee, please, what your formal educational training has been?

Mr. ROBINSON. Public school.

Mr. TAVENNER. Where do you now reside?

Mr. ROBINSON. I live in North Hollywood.

Mr. TAVENNER. How long have you lived in Los Angeles?

Mr. ROBINSON. About 8, 9 years, maybe 10.

Mr. TAVENNER. Prior to that time, where did you live?

Mr. ROBINSON. 15 East 53d St., I think, New York City.
Mr. TAVENNER. How long did you live in New York City?
Mr. ROBINSON. All my life.

Mr. TAVENNER. How were you employed in New York City for a period of 2 years before coming to Los Angeles?

Mr. ROBINSON. I was a free-lance photographer, mostly.

Mr. TAVENNER. Did you engage in any other business in Los Angeles besides that of photography after your arrival here?

Mr. ROBINSON. I think so; yes.

Mr. TAVENNER. What was the nature of that business?

Mr. ROBINSON. Well, I was employed in the shipyards when I first came out here.

Mr. TAVENNER. The committee has information, Mr. Robinson, that in 1944 you were a member of a branch of the Communist Party in Los Angeles. Is that correct?

Mr. ROBINSON. I decline to answer that question.

Mr. TAVENNER. On what grounds do you decline?

Mr. ROBINSON. The fifth amendment, I guess.

Mr. TAVENNER. I see no occasion for my asking any additional questions.

Mr. JACKSON. Any questions, Mr. Doyle?

Mr. DOYLE. No questions.

Mr. JACKSON. Is there any reason why the witness shouldn't be excused?

Mr. TAVENNER. No.

Mr. JACKSON. You are excused.

Mr. ROBINSON. Will you need me again?

Mr. JACKSON. No. You are excused from your subpena.

(Whereupon the witness was excused and the subcommittee continued the executive session in relation to other matters.)

INVESTIGATION OF COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES IN THE

LOS ANGELES AREA-Part 5

MONDAY, APRIL 13, 1953

UNITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, SUBCOMMITTEE OF THE COMMITTEE ON UN-AMERICAN ACTIVITIES, Los Angeles, Calif.

EXECUTIVE SESSION 1

A subcommittee of the Committee on Un-American Activities met, pursuant to call, at 10: 10 a. m., in the chambers of Courtroom 9, United States Post Office and Courthouse Building, Hon. Donald L. Jackson (acting chairman), presiding.

Committee member present: Representative Donald L. Jackson (acting chairman).

Staff member present: William A. Wheeler, investigator.

Mr. JACKSON. The subcommittee will be in order.

Mr. Wheeler, will you call the witness.

Mr. WHEELER. Thomas M. McGrath.

Mr. JACKSON. Do you solemnly swear the testimony you are about to give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?

Mr. McGRATH. I do.

TESTIMONY OF THOMAS MATTHEW MCGRATH, ACCOMPANIED BY HIS COUNSEL, WILLIAM B. ESTERMAN

Mr. WHEELER. Will the witness state his full name, please?

Mr. MCGRATH. Thomas McGrath, or with the middle name, Thomas Matthew McGrath.

Mr. WHEELER. Where do you presently reside?

Mr. McGRATH. In the county of Los Angeles.

Mr. WHEELER. Your present occupation?

Mr. McGRATH. I am an assistant professor at Los Angeles State College.

Mr. WHEELER. Would you give us a brief résumé of your educational background?

Mr. McGRATH. Well, the first 8 years, I guess it is, the public school of Highland Township, I believe, District 69, if I am not mistaken, the county of Cass, in North Dakota.

Following that, 4 years in high school, Sheldon High School, in the county of Ransom.

Following that 4 years I took a B. A. at the University of North Dakota.

1 Released by the committee on same day.

And following that, a year and a quarter semester-I have forgotten how it was called-at Louisiana State University, when I took a master of arts.

Mr. WHEELER. Approximately what year was that?

Mr. McGRATH. Master of arts, 1939-40. Following that, 1 year at New College, University of Oxford, Oxford, England. That is about it.

Mr. WHEELER. When did you attend Oxford?

Mr. McGRATH. 1947-48. The year 1947-48.

Mr. WHEELER. Did you receive any type of scholarship at Oxford? Mr. McGRATH. Yes, I received a Rhodes scholarship. I received that scholarship in-I was a Rhodes scholar-elect for 1939, if I am not mistaken, but I didn't go to Oxford until 1947, because in the fall of 1939 Rhodes scholars were forbidden to go to England because of the war. Then there was the war, and following the war I couldn't manage to get there until 1947.

Mr. WHEELER. When and where were you born?

Mr. McGRATH. When and where was I born?

Mr. WHEELER. Yes.

Mr. McGRATH. I was born November 20, 1916, in North Dakota. Mr. WHEELER. What has your employment been since 1939?

Mr. McGRATH. Since 1939, let's see. It would have been since 1940, since that is the year I took my degree. I taught one year then at Colby College in Waterville, Maine, and following that I jobbed around at this and that, and went into the Army. I came out of the Army

Mr. WHEELER. Would you continue your employment from 1940 until you went to the Army?

Mr. MCGRATH. From 1940 until I went into the Army, most of those jobs, I guess I can't remember. There are a couple I can't remember. Could I speak to you about this? (Witness addresses his counsel.) Mr. ESTERMAN. Yes.

(At this point Mr. McGrath conferred with Mr. Esterman.)

Mr. JACKSON. Let the record show at this point, pursuant to the authority vested in the chairman of the House Committee on UnAmerican Activities, he has appointed Mr. Jackson as a subcommittee of one to take testimony today.

Mr. ESTERMAN. What is the question? The employment record since 1940?

Mr. WHEELER. His employment, yes, since 1940, until he entered the United States Army.

Mr. ESTERMAN. Give them your best recollection.

Mr. McGRATH. All right. I worked for a while, I don't know exactly how long, for a law firm of Stern and Pollett, I think it was, if I am not mistaken, or, Pollock, rather, in New York. Then I worked

Mr. WHEELER. Approximately the dates?

Mr. McGRATH. Approximate dates, this would have been-I think it would have been straddling the end of 1940 and first part of 1941. And then later on I worked at Kearny Shipyards, Kearny, N. J. Mr. WHEELER. That would have been

Mr. McGRATH. From about March, or something of that sort, until I went into the Army, which was about-I am not certain of this.

It was July or August, I believe. I remember I was going to get frozen into my job and I had the notion I wanted to be in the Army, so I quit the job and joined the Army.

Mr. WHEELER. When did you enter the United States Army?

Mr. McGRATHI. I think it was something like August-it was the year of Pearl Harbor.

Mr. JACKSON. 1942?

Mr. McGRATH. 1942.

Mr. ESTERMAN. Pearl Harbor was 1941.

Mr. JACKSON. Yes; December 7, 1941.

Mr. ESTERMAN. What was that date, August 1941?

Mr. McGRATH. August 1941, I think.

Mr. JACKSON. May I ask you at this time, are you represented by counsel?

Mr. McGRATH. Yes.

Mr. JACKSON. Will counsel please identify himself for the record? Mr. ESTERMAN. William B. Esterman.

Mr. WHEELER. How long did you serve in the United States Army? Mr. McGRATH. For 3 years and some odd months. I am not sure how many months; or 4.

Mr. WHEELER. Were you honorably discharged?

Mr. McGRATH. Yes.

Mr. WHEELER. At what rank?

Mr. McGRATH. Sergeant, buck sergeant.

Mr. WHEELER. Where were you discharged?

Mr. McGRATH. I was discharged at Mitchel Field, Long Island. Mr. WHEELER. After your discharge, what has your employment been?

Mr. McGRATH. For the most part it was free-lance writing. I worked for, oh, I guess a couple of weeks or something like that, for the New York State Employment Service.

Mr. JACKSON. What was the nature of your writing?

Mr. McGRATH. The nature of my writing?

Mr. JACKSON. Yes.

Mr. ESTERMAN. Just a minute.

(At this point Mr. McGrath conferred with Mr. Esterman.) Mr. McGRATH. Could I have the legislative purpose of this question? Mr. JACKSON. In general, the legislative purpose of the question is to determine in general what type of writing and what publications you have written for, to determine whether or not it falls within the scope of this inquiry which is the extent and nature of Communist propaganda activities.

(At this point Mr. McGrath conferred with Mr. Esterman.) Mr. McGRATH. Do you have a particular publication in mind?

Mr. JACKSON. No; I have no particular publication in mind. I assume your writings were in the realm of public knowledge. Mr. WHEELER. In January 1947 were you

Mr. JACKSON. Just a moment.

Mr. ESTERMAN. Are you withdrawing the question?

Mr. JACKSON. Is this on the same question?

Mr. WHEELER. Yes.

Mr. JACKSON. No. I was inquiring from you as to what the nature of your writing had been.

(At this point Mr. McGrath conferred with Mr. Esterman.)

Mr. McGRATH. So far as I can see, this question has no legisla

tive purpose.

Mr. JACKSON. Let me rephrase the question. Did you ever submit for publication any article or script to a publication known to you to be a Communist publication?

(At this point Mr. McGrath conferred with Mr. Esterman.)

Mr. McGRATH. I decline to answer for the following reasons: After a dead serious consideration of the effects of this committee's work and of my relation to it, I find that for the following reasons I must refuse to cooperate with this body:

In the first place, as a teacher, my first responsibility is to my students. To cooperate with this committee would be to set for them an example of accommodation to forces which can only have, as their end effect, the destruction of education itself. Such accommodation on my part would ruin my value as a teacher, and I am proud to say that a great majority of my students-and I believe this is true of students generally-do not want me to accommodate myself to this committee. In a certain sense, I have no choice in the matter-the students would not want me back in the classroom if I were to take any course of action other than the one I am pursuing.

Secondly, as a teacher, I have a responsibility to the profession itself. We teachers have no professional oath of the sort that doctors take, but there is a kind of unwritten oath which we follow: To teach as honestly, fairly, and fully as we can. The effect of this committee is destructive of such an ideal, destructive of academic freedom. As Mr. Justice Douglas has said:

This system of spying and surveillance with its accompanying reports and trials cannot go hand in hand with academic freedom. It produces standardized thought, not the pursuit of truth.

A teacher who will tack and turn with every shift of the political wind cannot be a good teacher. I have never done this myself, nor will I ever. In regard to my teaching I have tried to hold to two guidelines, the first from Chaucer that "gladly will I learn and gladly teach"; the second a paraphrase of the motto of the late General Stilwell "Illiterati non carborundum."

Thirdly, as a poet, I must refuse to cooperate with the committee on what I can only call esthetic grounds. The view of life which we receive through the great works of art is a privileged one-it is a view of life according to probability or necessity, not subject to the chance and accident of our real world and therefore in a sense truer than the life we see lived all around us. I believe that one of the things required of us is to try to give life an esthetic ground, to give it some of the pattern and beauty of art. I have tried as best I can to do this with my own life, and while I do not claim any very great success, it would be anticlimactic, destructive of the pattern of my life, if I were to cooperate with the committee. Then too, poets have been notorious noncooperators where committees of this sort are concerned. As a traditionalist, I would prefer to take my stand with Marvell, Blake, Shelley, and Garcia Lorca rather than with innovators like Mr. Jackson. I do not wish to bring dishonor upon my tribe.

These, then, are reasons for refusing to cooperate, but I am aware that none of them is acceptable to the committee. When I was notified to appear here, my first instinct was simply to refuse to answer

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