sure. However, it has been shown by members of the Militia Association on request to civilian organizations and groups.

Senator THURMOND. What use has the New York National Guard made of "Operation Abolition" in appraising civilian organizations of the Communist threat?

Colonel JOYCE. Again I make the distinction. The New York National Guard has made no use of this film whatsoever.

DISCUSSION ON JOYCE'S INTRODUCTION TO "OPERATION ABOLITION"

Senator THURMOND. In fact, Colonel Joyce, I would like to quote from the introduction you presented on the film "Operation Abolition," which I think is particularly valuable. You stated during the Militia Association conference the following:

The film is controversial throughout this country. The controversy that has been created and intensified so as to diminish and detract from and beshroud the shattering impact of the message it portrays is a controversy that involves people in all walks and all fields of endeavor, including influential people, painless people, and well-intentioned and patriotic people on both sides of the issue. It is a controversy that has drawn headlines in education, religious, and political circles.

Do you have anything to add to this?

Colonel JOYCE. Well, I would like to make it clear that I was speaking at that time as a member of the Militia Association to the militia convention. I was voicing my personal opinions, and I based my opinion primarily on the official records of the incident and, when I mentioned the controversy, the people involved in the controversy, of course again I speak from newspaper reports and magazine, periodical reports, on the opinions of various people in public life and all fields of public life.

Senator THURMOND. You further stated:

The film is controversial for the same reason that the program of characterization, lies, and distortion that only the Communists can so effectively impose was initiated to discredit so very effectively the Dies committee in 1939.

In other words, you feel that the Communists have had the means to influence public opinion since the 1930's and to discredit any activities that tried to reveal the inner workings of the Communists in the United States. Is that correct?

Colonel JOYCE. Yes, sir, that is correct, that is a personal opinion. Senator THURMOND. In fact, in the following paragraph you stated: The information revealed by this committee was of such a sensational nature that almost overnight, the committee, itself, became the issue. The American public just couldn't and wouldn't believe what we now know are accurate facts of Communist infiltration into Government, labor unions, communications, the arts, and education.

Colonel Joyce, I concur with this excellent summation of how the Communists are constantly working on American public opinion to insure that they will not accept accurate facts presented on Communist subversion and propaganda by Federal, Congressional, military and State governmental agencies. Is that the way you see it?

Colonel JOYCE. Yes, sir.

Senator THURMOND. You further stated during your introduction of "Operation Abolition" that some 600 leaders and activists of the Communist Party of the United States of America were trained in

Soviet schools in Russia. This is the first time I have heard this figure. It is a very significant item of information. Could you elaborate on it?

Colonel JOYCE. I don't recall exactly my source for that comment. However, I could very easily look it up. I have it in my notes at home. I do know for sure that I obtained that figure from some official or semi-official publication.

Senator THURMOND. Was that a reliable source?

Colonel JOYCE. Yes, sir. I would not quote it if it were not. Offhand I don't recall the source.

Senator THURMOND. In summation you told the National Guard audience that they might "be stressing exclusively training for the wrong fight." Let me read from the transcript of the Militia Association conference. I feel that your comment that "we might be training for the wrong fight" is of utmost importance for the military and civilians to understand. You said:

As Guardsmen, as soldiers, we train diligently for the type of warfare that is not yet a reality and that we fervently and fearfully pray will never come about, and all the while, in an aura of complacency and apprehension, we ignore the type of conflict in which our system is so deeply and deadly engaged at present. You can parade. You can shoot. You can maneuver. You can assault an enemy objective. But how good are you at recognizing the Communist lie? How alert are you to its insidious threat, its danger to freedom? How aware are you of its insidious, deceptive infiltration into your school system, your labor union, your social groups, your community? How quick are you at rebuking the dupes who eke out its treason, and how well do you and your neighbors assert and demonstrate your patriotism, your loyalty, and your purpose, and the sacred rights of man?

Colonel Joyce, I congratulate you for your deep and incisive analysis of the lack of cold war education and training.

QUESTION OF PROPER TRAINING IN THE COLD WAR

General Hamlett told us recently, "we are at war with communism." Our military commanders must recognize that much of the training being conducted today stresses exclusively training for the "wrong fight," as you have indicated here. Do you agree that unless all Americans are awakened to the war in which we are now engaged, that we may wake up one day to find the war is over and we've lost while preparing for a war of hardware that never happened?

Colonel JOYCE. Are you quoting from General Hamlett's talk, sir— that last sentence?

Senator THURMOND. No, that is a question I am asking you.

What I say General Hamlett said is "We are at war with communism." I make this statement: "Our military commanders must recognize that much of the training conducted today stresses exclusively training for the wrong fight," as you have indicated in your

statement.

Now, the question I am asking is this: Do you agree that unless all Americans are awakened to the war in which we are now engaged, that we may wake up one day to find the war is over, and we have lost while preparing for a war of hardware that never happened? Colonel JOYCE. Yes, sir, that is my personal opinion.

COMMENTS ON AUDIENCE REACTION TO "OPERATION ABOLITION"

Senator THURMOND. Your final comment before you showed "Operation Abolition" was as follows:

It is time to stop discussing the liberal and Red sympathizers. It is time to stop coddling the Reds, themselves, because, whether fanatics or dupes, they are our enemies. They are out to destroy our freedom, our way of life. They are sympathizers in a haze of wishful thinking and just can't seem to appreciate the full implication of Khrushchev's statements: "We will bury you. Your children will live under communism."

I thoroughly concur with your comments. Could you give us the reaction of the audience to the film?

Colonel JOYCE. Well, we did not have any-conduct any question and answer period following the film. However, from the general comment I think that the reaction of the audience was very favorable. Most of them felt the film was a good film, that it did portray a very graphic message.

Senator THURMOND. General Williams, has the film Operation Abolition been used in your division, and if so, could you give us the scope of this program.

General WILLIAMS. No, sir, the film has not been used in my division at all. If I may, sir, I would like to add a comment to the question you just asked Colonel Joyce. I observed the reaction to this film among the audience on this occasion as being one of shock, that such a set of circumstances could possibly arise in the United States. Senator THURMOND. It was one of shock really, wasn't it? General WILLIAMS. Yes, sir.

Senator THURMOND. I was out there in California, and witnessed some of it myself. I was shocked. I was amazed that a thing such as that could happen right in America. That film actually shows the Communists at work in this country, doesn't it?

WILLIAMS' COMMENTS ON NATIONAL GUARD MISSION

General WILLIAMS. Yes, sir. I would like, if I may, at this time to make a comment concerning the National Guard preparing for the wrong fight. I do not personally concur entirely with the statement that Colonel Joyce made on his introduction. I believe that the National Guard, as a part of the Army of the United States and the Department of Defense, is an instrument of national policy, not the maker of policy, and that our primary mission is to be prepared to engage in military actions any place in the United States in the defense of critical areas of the United States or engaged in operations anywhere in the world in furtherance of the national policy.

I do not believe that in this sense we are preparing for the wrong fight. This is the fight that we should be preparing for. And while it would be highly desirable, in my personal opinion, for the people engaged in this training and in this preparedness, to have a knowledge of the national policy and the various activities of the Communists that are working against this policy-but I still maintain that our primary mission in life as National Guardsmen is to be prepared for engaging in military actions as directed by the Department of Defense.

NEED FOR NATIONAL GUARD TRAINING IN COLD WAR TACTICS

Senator THURMOND. If you lose the cold war, though, you may not have a chance to participate in a hot war, would you?

General WILLIAMS. Yes, sir, that is correct.

Senator THURMOND. And it is important that the National Guardsmen and Reservists understand what is involved in this cold war, in order to be able to help to win the cold war, isn't that so?

General WILLIAMS. I think this is very important. And of course this thing is not being done as a part of the training of the National Guard at the present time.

NEED FOR DOD DIRECTIVE ON COLD WAR TRAINING IN NATIONAL GUARD

Senator THURMOND. And I am sure you feel that it ought to be done, because it is a total threat. You can't say it is an internal threat only, or an external threat. It is a total threat. It involves not only military, but economic, political, propaganda, diplomatic, and global functions, doesn't it?

General WILLIAMS. I quite agree, sir. And while the National Guard does not establish the training policy, I would personally welcome a directive, from the Department of Defense, through CONARC that the National Guard participate in a troop information and education program for a portion of its normal training time.

Senator THURMOND. In fact, it would assist you in your training if you had a directive from the Department of the Army or the Continental Army Command on cold war training, wouldn't it?

General WILLIAMS. Yes, sir. I think that this should come out, if it were decided by the Department of Defense that this was desirable; this should come out in the form of a directive as to the scope of the subject to be covered, the frequency of coverage, number of hours involved in a training year, and that CONARC should actually furnish the data to be given to the troops in the form of lesson plans so that the information given by our commanders to our troops will be factual and unbiased and of current validity.

Senator THURMOND. You would recommend this, and feel it would be helpful in your training.

General WILLIAMS. I would certainly welcome such a directive as opposed to recommending it, sir.

Senator THURMOND. I see. But you feel it would be helpful, of course, or you wouldn't recommend it.

General WILLIAMS. Yes, sir.

NATIONAL GUARD MEMBERS WHO ARE EDUCATORS IN NEW YORK

SCHOOL SYSTEM

Senator THURMOND. General Williams, could you give us an approximate figure on the number of National Guard officers and noncommissioned officers who are teachers, principals or supervisors in the New York school system?

General WILLIAMS. Senator, this would have to be a guesstimate. I would say in the entire State of New York there would be perhaps 150 members of the New York National Guard or Air National Guard who are so occupied in civilian life-about 150.

Senator THURMOND. Now, is that officers you are speaking of? General WILLIAMS. I am speaking of officers

Senator THURMOND. Officers and noncommissioned officers?

General WILLIAMS. Yes, sir; there would be very few noncommissioned officers in such positions.

EDUCATORS MUST USE OWN INITIATIVE TO SECURE INFORMATION ON

COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES

Senator THURMOND. Are these civilian educators, who are parttime soldiers, provided ready access to documented information on Communist subversion and propaganda, and, if so, could you outline for us how this has been done?

General WILLIAMS. They have not been furnished this information either by the National Guard or by the Militia Association of New York. In the meetings conducted by the Militia Association of New York, in 1961, such of these people who may have attended the meetings were stimulated to gain further knowledge and to convey this knowledge to people with whom they had contact, doing so as individual civilians. Reference was made to a considerable number of documents that gave background information on the subject. These individuals who might have desired to pass this information on to school groups or PTA's or other people who are interested could write to the Superintendent of Documents or to publishers, and secure the information. But they would have had to do this on their own initiative, sir.

QUESTION OF FOLLOWUP ACTIVITIES AFTER SEMINAR ATTENDANCE

Senator THURMOND. The National Strategy Seminar conducted at Fort McNair in 1959, 1960, and 1961 provided exposure for several members of the Army National Guard, as well as some members of the Navy and Air National Guard, to U.S. commitments in the cold war. When these officers returned to your command, followup educational activities were encouraged in your organization. Could you please describe the scope of these activities?

General WILLIAMS. Within the 27th Armored Division, to the best of my knowledge, no member of the 27th Armored Division attended any of these seminars prior to 1961. In 1961 a Col. Charles Avery, who was assigned as the division civil affairs and military government officer, and who is an attorney in civilian life, did attend the seminar at Fort McNar.

I am not aware of any activities that he has engaged in specifically as a result of attending this seminar.

Senator THURMOND. Did you, General Williams, or members of your organization attend the 1st Army Manhattan Cold War Seminar on October 9 and 10, 1959, and, if so, would you please outline for us what was gained by attending this program?

General WILLIAMS. We had no members of the 27th Armored Division in attendance at that seminar.