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libraries and for them to have that information if the schools are not going to maintain the lists themselves? Colonel JOYCE. Yes, sir.

Senator THURMOND. In the last paragraph Mr. Schrader states:

The security laws legislated by the Congress of the United States are designed to aid the fight against the Communist conspiracy; to ascertain and identify such individuals who are Communists or sympathizers with the objectives of the Communist Party. The shedding of light upon the nature of the Communist affiliation to our students through a full publicizing of our security program can greatly help in removing the Communist threat on our youths.

It has been repeatedly reaffirmed in previous testimony that one of the main reasons why some American youth become involved in Communist-front activities is because they are unaware that Communistfront organizations are eager to put to use youthful frustrations to serve Communist aims.

Have you had any experience along this line?

Colonel JOYCE. No, sir.

Senator THURMOND. This situation could be improved through education, could it not?

Colonel JOYCE. Yes, sir.

QUESTION OF LOYALTY CASES DEVELOPING IN NATIONAL GUARD

Senator THURMOND. What does the National Guard do about loyalty cases that develop while a National Guardsman is on Federal service, as for example, in the current callup of Reserve components?

General WILLIAMS. I do not believe either of us is competent to answer that question, sir. We have had no loyalty cases that have come to our attention in the recent callup. Certainly in relation to these recommendations made by the gentleman from whose letter you are quoting, as to the necessity of educating our youth through educators, it is a thing with which we could quite agree. But as this relates to the National Guard, I cannot see it as a mission of the National Guard to participate in this education. However, I do think that it is essential that we get this information to our own youth who belong to the National Guard so as to make sure that they do not inadvertently get themselves mixed up with any Communist-front organization and become "rotten apples in the barrel." So certainly we need to educate our own troops. But I do not think it would be appropriate for the National Guard to participate in any public education program.

Senator THURMOND. General, I suppose a man in the National Guard whose unit is called to active duty should be brought before a loyalty board. Then when he returns to National Guard status, if he is not dismissed, you would be interested, of course, in the case, would you not?

General WILLIAMS. We certainly would.

Senator THURMOND. Even if he is dismissed from service you would be interested, especially if he attempted to reenter the Guard.

General WILLIAMS. That is correct-although we have had no such experience up to this time.

DISCUSSION ON PROBLEM OF LOYALTY CASES INCREASING IN EVENT

OF LARGE CALLUP

Senator THURMOND. Major Buchsbaum told the subcommittee that the rate of loyalty review cases tripled since last summer when the Reserves were called up. He stated that the 1st U.S. Army screened almost 150 a month. Now that was a very limited callup. Let us assume we had to respond to a national emergency with a callup of all Reserves and National Guard units, and that the current lack of hardhitting information on communism has continued in most of our school systems. The 1st Army gets 150 cases a month now. Very few of these are actually Communists, but the cases still need to be screened. We can probably assume in all six Army areas the Army has to screen perhaps 500 cases a month under the current Berlin crisis callup.

Now there were only 150,000 men that were called up in the present crisis. Suppose we had to bring in 1 or 2 million. Does the scope of the problem in this framework emphasize in your mind the necessity for taking preventive measures? Is this worth looking into, and giving thought and consideration to?

General WILLIAMS. It would seem, based on the figures that you have quoted and the estimates made, that this would be an area in which we should be very much interested at the present time. However, the process of running a national agency check or background investigation during peacetime on membership of the National Guard, which is revolving at the rate of about 25 percent a year, would be an unacceptable burden on any continental army or any national guard division or other headquarters. As a matter of fact, these investigations are not only time consuming but they are very expensive.

As an illustration of this, the National Guard divisions, of which there were two called into active service last fall, found themselves far short of security clearance for the officers and noncommissioned officers who were required to handle Federal classified documents. It took a considerable amount of effort, time, and money to get classification clearance for the minimum number of people that they had to have handle the documents. So any thought of security clearance or classification of individuals on an across-the-board basis while they are in an inactive duty status would probably be an impossible task.

VALUE OF COLD WAR EDUCATION IN MINIMIZING EFFECT OF ANTIMILITARY

PROPAGANDA

Senator THURMOND. I am firmly convinced, as are Mr. Schrader, Major Bailey, and Major Buchsbaum said they were, that education on communism could eliminate the bulk of these cases. So from what you have said from a practical standpoint, it would seem that that is true more than ever. Education would be the answer to a large part of the problem.

General WILLIAMS. I am convinced that that is true.

Senator THURMOND. A Communist cold war technique is simply to generate antimilitary propaganda against our youth so that 100,000 or 200,000 youngsters will, in varying degress, resist military service. In these hearings Dr. Beersteecher explained how the Communist "advance guard" attempts to hold bridgeheads among our civilian population to undermine conscientious and dedicated service in our

military forces. Timely cold war education could minimize and possibly eliminate entirely this perfectly standard method of Communist operation.

I presume that you would be in accord with that?

General WILLIAMS. I would.

RESPONSIBILITY FOR CONTROL OF SUBVERSIVE GROUPS IN EVENT OF NATIONAL EMERGENCY

Senator THURMOND. The other day we discussed with Colonel Wilson the effect of youthful defiance of law and order and resistance to military service. The Evergreen Review was used as an example of typical anti-U.S. military propaganda disseminated in the United States.

Incidentally, it also concentrates heavily on salacious material. I think the problem of subversion is even more disturbing when viewed from the standpoint of the State Guard should a national mobilization bring National Guard troops into Federal service, especially overseas. Does the State have any plans for providing local security in areas where Communist youth organizations have laid the groundwork to effect sabotage, infiltration, subversion, and other acts to interfere with military operations?

General WILLIAMS. Not to my knowledge, sir.

Colonel JOYCE. None to my knowledge. That would be a function, I presume of the State police, and I am not familiar with any such activity.

Again, in the National Guard we have no such provision.

General WILLIAMS. In the event of an emergency occurring within the State, where a police action was necessary to control subversive groups and acts of sabotage, the State police would have the primary mission of handling this the State police and the local police and the county sheriffs. And only in the event that more force was needed than available in these groups would the National Guard troops be called out to supplement them. This would be strictly a State mission. It is certainly contemplated by the present Governor of the State of New York and by his immediate predecessor that it would never be necessary to call out the National Guard on a State mission of this kind-that the State police are entirely adequate and equipped and trained and strong enough to handle such a contingency.

IMPLEMENTATION OF NEW YORK BILL TO ENCOURAGE EDUCATION ABOUT COMMUNISM

Senator THURMOND. General Williams, I am sure you will agree that much of the misguided action on communism by our youth stems from frustrations which we have permitted to grow and which can. only be corrected by educational programs such as you have developed in the New York metropolitan and upstate area. I think the New York Guard and Militia Association are to be congratulated for the initiative and foresight in planning the cold war educational programs in New York. Can you tell us, General Williams, what followup action is being planned in Albany to insure that the Governor's bill to encourage education dealing with communism will be pursued with vigor and determination?

I presume that you gentlemen are interested in the implementation of that work, because although you are not in the school system yourself, you will be getting the product of the school system in the National Guard. I presume that you will be interested in the results, naturally.

General WILLIAMS. I cannot say what is being planned in Albany on this subject. Certainly I am sure that all of our people in the State government are at least partially aware of this problem and interested in its proper resolution. But what is being planned in this area, I do not know, and I doubt that Colonel Joyce could add much to that statement.

Colonel JOYCE. Speaking for the headquarters of New York Army National Guard, we have absolutely no plans concerning this activity. We are deeply interested in it. But it is not a function of the National Guard. Therefore we would have absolutely no plans for it, or anything to say about it.

NEW YORK NATIONAL GUARD INTEREST IN EDUCATIONAL PROGRAM

Senator THURMOND. Do you plan to confer with the State superintendent of education to see how the course is coming on, since although you are not responsible, you would be interested in the results obtained, would you not?

Colonel JOYCE. We are interested in the results obtained, yes. But again, we have absolutely nothing to do with it.

Senator THURMOND. You do not have the responsibility for it, that is true.

Colonel JOYCE. No. sir.

Senator THURMOND. But I thought you might be interested in coordinating or conferring with some of the educational authorities to get their views as to what progress they are making and so forth. Colonel JOYCE. I am sure that officers in the National Guard are interested and we are willing to help on a civilian status, those who are knowledgeable enough. But again, it is not our function. We have nothing to do with it whatsoever.

Senator THURMOND. I understand that. I understand you do not have responsibility for it. The point I am getting at, though—you are interested in the results they obtain, are you not?

Colonel JOYCE. Yes, sir.

Senator THURMOND. Because you get the products of those schools. Colonel JOYCE. Very much so.

General WILLIAMS. I think any positive action we took in this matter would be as individual citizens, and not as National Guardsmen. I believe that is the point Colonel Joyce was trying to make there. Senator THURMOND. You would be interested as private citizens. But wouldn't you also be interested as commanders and officers in the National Guard that is going to be recruiting these boys from schools who are taking new courses on communism, who will be entering the Guard? Wouldn't you be interested, therefore, in conferring with the superintendents to inquire what results they are getting and possibly offer any assistance if they want it?

General WILLIAMS. Yes. Presumably the education department is competent to

Senator THURMOND. Of course you would not interfere. But if you could assist in any way, offer any suggestions, you would be glad to do it, would you not?

General WILLIAMS. Certainly we would. We think these people are competent to evaluate and handle this problem. But certainly we would be happy to assist them in any way we could. We are interested in the product of the schools-although strangely enough the people who are joining the National Guard within the past 2 years are not presently students. They are people who have completed all the civilian schooling that they are ever going to have, and they average age 23.

Senator THURMOND. Mr. Kendall?

EXPRESSION OF APPRECIATION TO WILLIAMS AND JOYCE

Mr. KENDALL. I have no questions, Senator. I want to thank you gentlemen for coming here.

Senator THURMOND. General Williams and Colonel Joyce, I want to express my appreciation to you for coming down and testifying before this subcommittee and giving us the benefit of your thoughts and your recommendations and your counsel. I feel that your testimony has made a contribution to this hearing.

Thank you very much.

General WILLIAMS. Thank you, sir.

Colonel JOYCE. Thank you, sir.

STUDY BY THURMOND'S STAFF ON ACTIVITIES OF HUGH B. HESTER

Senator THURMON. At this time, I would like to clear up a matter relating to the discussion during the testimony of Major Bailey on May 11, 1962, concerning the classification of Department of Defense information dealing with the propaganda activities of Gen. Hugh B. Hester. General Hester's activities became a special subject of interest of 1st U.S. Army cold war training activities in 1959 and 1960. During this time General Hester's persistent and vitriolic attacks on the U.S. military, security, and defense measures came to the attention of this military command. Since General Hester's activities were in direct opposition to Army Reserve cold war and intelligence training, information was disseminated to clarify General Hester's role as an anti-U.S. military propagandist who consistently served Sino-Soviet propaganda objectives in the United States.

As pointed out in the hearings of May 11, 1962, the objective of 1st Army was to provide unclassified information on techniques of propaganda and subversion directed by the Communists against U.S. military. General Hester was used as a "case study" so that Military Reserve and National Guard officers could counter the fallacious propaganda lines of Communist fronts.

The secret classification of the Department of Defense letter concerning General Hester is of considerable interest since it demonstrates the problem of over classification frequently encountered at lower echelons of the military commands. Classification of information in the "Confidential" or "Secret" category restricts the use of hardhitting intelligence information on Communist propaganda activities in the United States directed against the U.S. military. This infor

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