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ment side of the house, but also in the emergency management/ public safety side of the house. So they've been tested and they work fairly well. And a lot of our protocols are basically prototypes for some of the rest of the Nation, and also the activities that we did in the Olympics are now prototypes for other agencies throughout the United States.

Mr. HORN. Some people in other States have said there's just too much money being spent on planning rather than providing necessary equipment and training for those on the front lines of emergency response.

Can you give us a feeling of what's happening there? Is it just planning or are we getting the goods so people can do their job, be they a first, second, or third responder? FBI? FEMA? Anybody else want to take it?

Mr. CARBALLIDO. I would simply say that planning is also paramount. I don't know if there's a balance between equipment and planning in place, but planning cannot be underestimated. We exercise the plans, and I think that's why we were successful in responding to the anthrax threat, which was major, as you well know. So I really don't know if there's a balance that exists in Colorado between equipment, training, and planning, but planning is paramount.

Mr. BAKERSKY. One of the things we looking at with the new grant process is just not the planning, but the planning also includes equipment. When we are saying planning for equipment, we are looking as the interoperability of the equipment. We want to make sure that we have a standard. That's what we are trying to do with the new grant process is setting up a standard. Resource typing, so that if you request a certain thing from another area, you're getting the same. Some of the problems that you have in equipment, even on September 11th, things just as easy as hose thread. You had on Staten Island

Mr. TANCREDO. As what?

Mr. BAKERSKY. Hose thread, thread on the end of a hose. The Staten Island Fire Department does not have hose that can be connected to New York City hydrants. So what they're trying to doSo you have the planning in equipment, but what you're trying to do is provide a standardization of equipment that could be used throughout the United States. A good example

Mr. HORN. That's fascinating to me. These were borough differences of the five boroughs or so?

Mr. BAKERSKY. Yes, sir.

Mr. HORN. We do know Staten Island is different.

Mr. BAKERSKY. Yes, sir. I'm from New York originally, so

Mr. HORN. And they didn't know about that until the problems came?

Mr. BAKERSKY. Probably not because they really did not-New York City being such a large organization, they didn't have mutual aid compacts in place. When you have a fire department of 18,000 individuals, they've never had an event that was beyond the scope of their capability, that they could not handle it with their own internal structures. September 11th came down and it did raise some issues.

There's other examples you could use, like scuba gear. You can go from one end of the country to another end of the country and the regulator on scuba gear is the same. You go to the fire fighting community and MSCA and 3M and SCBA equipment all might be different threads. So that's one of the things we are looking at besides the equipment, to have the planning to be sure that you have the interoperability of the equipment that can be used in response to an event.

Mr. HORN. Well, I'm glad you mentioned that because that's news to us. But you never would hear it in most places in America anyhow unless you've seen it there.

Any other little things like interoperability not happening? Or do you all have interoperability in Colorado? You're either sick of hearing it or is it done? And are there still gulfs somewhere that aren't getting treated?

Ms. MENCER. Mr. Chairman, I also serve on the national task force for interoperability as well.

Mr. HORN. Boy, am I going to follow you around.

Ms. MENCER. In my spare time I do that. And I'm happy to report, after listening to the other States that are represented on that task force, that we are far and away above many other States with our interoperability issues, and I think that's due directly probably to Columbine, which emphasized to us that we needed to be interoperable.

We have the digital trunk radio system in the State. We have been progressing through different sectors of the State to accomplish that. Unfortunately, our funding was stopped this year because of our fiscal problems again. But once we get our funding reestablished, we'll continue with our progressing across the State with getting our DTR capabilities up. But, as you know, it was just announced earlier this week, Senator Campbell effected this system that will be like a patch system for different radio systems so that those areas of the State that are not interoperable, they will be able to use this system to patch through and get them connected. So that is not a long-term solution to the problem of interoperability but is a short-term fix until we can get the digital trunk radio system up all over the State. So we are working very hard at that, and we have made great progress at that in the last couple of years.

Mr. CARBALLIDO. If I may add, Mr. Chairman, we also have a similar piece of equipment that we obtained-we were one of a number of offices in the FBI-from our research facility that accomplishes the same purpose, and this was done after Čolumbine as well.

Mr. HORN. Now, how much does this cost in terms of those that have equipment and need to be changed? And when the Federal Government gives a grant out, do you think they ought to say and demand it, that if you're going to use the taxpayers' money, it ought to be the right way, and figure out what are you going to do with the equipment that is not doing very well? How do you handle that?

Ms. MENCER. Mr. Chairman, this national task force is looking to make statements to bring forward to the Office of Homeland Se

curity, to the President, stating what they believe are the best practices as far as interoperability goes.

I was amazed to learn when I attended my first meeting of this task force that some States don't even see the need for interoperability, which I think is amazing. But, of course, most States haven't had a Columbine incident to reinforce the necessity of this. I think they will be coming forth with the statement encouraging that all States go to some level of interoperability, 800 megahertz, 700 megahertz, whatever it happens to be for that State. I think we will see all States coming on board with this eventually. But, again, I think Colorado is far ahead of that curve, and I'm happy that it is.

But it is a continuing issue. I think the Office of Homeland Security is looking at earmarking some funds particularly for interoperability, and that may be what we need as a State to continue with our progress with getting the other sectors up in line. So I'm hopeful that we'll see some funding in that regard.

Mr. HORN. Well, that's good because there's been some concern about the department created, that they haven't gone for standards against which one can then know we've done something right or we haven't. And so we are going to urge that a little bit and give it a nod.

There's a number of questions we have here that we might want to use for you. And let me just say, if you had 30 seconds with the President of the United States, went into his office, what would you say to President Bush is the most important thing on dealing with terrorism?

Let's just go down the line. General?

General WHITNEY. Well, sir, I guess as it relates to my specific mission area, I would ask him how we could implement new equipment, new training, and new parts of our organization in order to be able to meet the challenges of this terrorist threat.

Mr. HORN. How about it, Ms. Mencer?

Ms. MENCER. Well, I would first compliment him, I think, on what he's attempting to do with the Department of Homeland Security. I think focusing existing resources is what we need to do. And I think the resources are there, the capabilities are there. We need to have a place to focus those, and I think he's doing that, as we've tried to do in the State as well.

Mr. CARBALLIDO. Mr. Chairman, I think I would ask the President for a great deal of money and technology that exists presently to create data bases throughout the country that could better coordinate all the information that we all receive at the various levels, to better connect the dots and improve on our intelligence base, because for us that is the key to prevention and to be in a proactive posture so that we don't have to involve ourselves in crisis management.

Mr. HORN. Mr. Bakersky.

Mr. BAKERSKY. I would stress that we continue the initiatives that were started with the fiscal year 2002, supplemental fiscal year 2003, providing resources, both monetary and personnel resources, to States and locals, which basically are the first responders. They're the individuals that are going to be putting their-everything on the line. When we have an incident, we have to make

sure that we have funding streams in the initiatives that are started and maintained for the next 3, 4, 5, 6, however many years it takes.

Mr. HORN. Dr. Miller.

Dr. MILLER. I would panic, first of all, but

Mr. HORN. No, you wouldn't. He's a really friendly guy.
Dr. MILLER. He does seem like a really friendly guy.

I would echo some of those comments, and I would stress that this is really a new role for public health. And if we are really going to develop this capacity in public health to respond to bioterrorism and to be part of emergency plans, we need long-term infrastructure support.

And I would also try and frame public health as part of the first responder community. I think it's easier to understand that way that we also need to be prepared to be first responders, and that's a new role.

Mr. HORN. Very good. Any more thoughts?

Mr. TANCREDO. Nothing more. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Very, very interesting.

Mr. HORN. And we have with us the General Accounting Office, and at the end of the next panel. We bring them here because we've got over 50 blue books already, and it's very worthwhile material, if you don't have it, and I would hope GÃO would send it to all of you. And we ask them, what haven't we done? Where are the openings that we don't know what we are talking about? And then go back to it. So that will come up after the next panel.

So you've done a wonderful job, all of you. And I think Colorado seems to be in good hands. So we will now move to panel 2. [Recess.]

Mr. HORN. Recess is over. And before we begin with Panel 2, there is a statement, a very fine statement, by Representative Mark Udall, and I would like the reporter to put that following the Horn and Tancredo statements at the beginning of the thing. We'll put Mr. Udall's in as it is, and she will give it to you.

I just want to make sure everybody is here. We've got Mr. Wall, Mr. Sullivan, Lieutenant Hoffner, Lieutenant Wicks, and Mr. Posner, so you know this procedure. Since it is an investigative committee, if you have any staff to support you, have them take the oath so I don't have to do it in the middle of the areas. So if you'll raise your right hand.

[Witnesses sworn.]

Mr. HORN. The five witnesses have affirmed the oath, and we will begin with Mr. Wall. If some of you haven't been here in the first session, we were going right down the line in order. And as we call your name, your whole, full written statement is automatically put in to the report, so you don't have to give every word in it, but we would like to have you give us 5 minutes or so, or maybe 10 sometimes, if it's that wonderful, and we would like you to give us the summary of it, and then we can get into the question period at the end, and we'll do that in each case. We've looked at the documents; they've been very good.

And so we'll start right now then with Larry H. Wall, president of the Colorado Health and Hospital Association.

STATEMENT OF LARRY H. WALL, PRESIDENT, COLORADO HEALTH AND HOSPITAL ASSOCIATION

Mr. WALL. Mr. Chairman, thank you very much for the opportunity to be here. In addition to my responsibilities as president of a hospital association, I'm also a member of the Governor's Epidemic Emergency Response Committee, and I chair the Hospital Preparedness Advisory Committee. I appreciate the opportunity to testify before you this morning.

September 11th has obviously created a new world for all of us, and that includes hospitals. Hospitals as first-line responders have always been the foundation of a response to the medical needs of patients, be they personal or as a result of natural disasters or flu epidemics.

Historically, the resources of the hospital system have been adequate to meet the needs. The potential use of weapons of mass destruction and bioterror agents, however, results in the need for a whole new level of preparedness. There are at least eight areas that need to be addressed. One, communication and notification, and we've heard a lot about that already this morning. Communication for hospitals is as critical as it is for other organizations and agencies. Disease surveillance and reporting and laboratory identification. That was referred to earlier as part of the intelligence network, which I think is an important issue. Personal protective equipment. Facility enhancements. Decontamination facilities. Medical, surgical, and pharmaceutical supplies. Training and drills. And mental health resources. At this particular point the resources are not adequate to address all of these needs.

Just to use a very simple example, the 2-year HRSA allocation for Colorado is approximately $4.5 million, or roughly $70,000 per hospital. The estimated cost to address the communication issue alone is in the neighborhood of $3.5 to $3.7 million, leaving little for the remaining seven areas of need.

The current allocation of dollars, while it is very much appreciated, is really inadequate to meet the needs with regard to hospital preparedness. I think it's important to understand, however, that the public can certainly be assured that hospitals will be as prepared as they possibly can within the constraints of the available resources. Neither Congress nor the American public should assume that at the current level of Federal funding that hospitals will be fully prepared to handle the outcome of a significant event. We are significantly ahead of where we were on September 11th, and progress on preparedness will continue to be made. But more funding is needed if hospitals are to meet what I believe are the preparedness expectations of Congress and the American public.

I want to thank you for the opportunity to testify, and I'll certainly be happy to address specific questions with regard to hospital issues, some of which were raised in the earlier testimony. [The prepared statement of Mr. Wall follows:]

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