on nuclear testing, to eliminate conventional armaments, and to develop agencies of negotiation, diplomacy, and constructive cooperation."

8. We believe that disarmament is consistent with God's divine will for nations. We therefore believe that the establishment of disarmament agencies to achieve this goal is likewise in harmony with God's purpose for mankind. It is God's will as revealed by Jesus Christ that we be peacemakers and reconcilers of differences. It is equally clear both from scripture and history that those who violate God's will in this regard and take the sword will perish by the sword.

"SOME CONCERNS AFTER THE BILL IS ENACTED"

We have some real concerns after the proposed bill is enacted. First, we are concerned that Congress appropriate sufficient funds for the Agency in order that it may be able to carry out its assignment effectively.

Second, we are concerned that the Agency give vigorous effort and study in planning for the economic adjustment of our Nation throughout the process of disarmament.

Third, we are concerned that the Agency not be dominated by military men or by the "military mind," but that it remain fully in control of civilians who can see and implement disarmament in the broadest possible framework.

Fourth, regardless of how fine a bill is enacted and how competent are the staff and funds of the Agency, we are concerned that our Government develop and maintain the will and the perseverance to achieve disarmament.

We agree with John J. McCloy when he said in submitting the proposed legislation to President Kennedy, "I must stress that organization, machinery, and competent people alone cannot guarantee the success of the mission of our country to prevent war, curb the arms race, and create lasting conditions of peace."

It is our conviction that any disarmament agency and any disarmament plan can and will succeed only if the Government and the people of this Nation have a committed will and a dedicated purpose to achieve success in spite of many difficulties both real and imagined. Let us be sincere about disarmament.

Let us be determined about disarmament.

Let us be persistent until disarmament is achieved.

We believe with Mr. McCloy, that the proposed Disarmament Agency can help to assure "that the best effort of which we are capable is directed toward these ends."

Sirs, we hope you will be led to act favorably on this important legislation.

EXHIBIT A. RECENT STATEMENTS ON DISARMAMENT ADOPTED BY THE CHURCH OF THE BRETHREN ANNUAL CONFERENCE AND GENERAL BROTHERHOOD BOARD

❝*** let us commend and encourage our Government for the proposals of universal disarmament through the United Nations and let us urge greater zeal to achieve multilateral disarmament now.' Annual conference, June 1952.

"Because we view with deep concern the rearmament race among the nations of the world, we urge the Government of the United States to take the risks involved in leading toward disarmament."— Annual conference, June 1953.

"We urge our Nation to lead out courageously in disarmament proposals and action."-Annual conference, June 1954.

"We urge our people to encourage our Nation, in spite of many difficulties, to take more initiative and moral leadership in working for disarmament."-Annual conference, June 1956.

"Believing that there is a universal desire for peace among the peoples of the world and that the maintenance of peace is threatened by the present armaments race, we petition our Government to announce as its own goal that it seriously seeks to reach agreements looking toward universal disarmament. We believe that in such an avowed goal our Government should make greater efforts to negotiate with other nations, especially within the framework of the United Nations, and that it should take initiative to secure agreements, particularly with the Soviet Union, that would help to create an atmosphere in which progressive steps toward real disarmament can be taken. We appeal to our national leaders to demonstrate a Christian spirit of patience and a willingness to go more than halfway in negotiating with other nations."-Annual conference, June 1957.

"The General Brotherhood Board *** again fully endorses the goal of a responsible system of universal disarmament and encourages persistent efforts to achieve every possible reduction and regulation of armaments with adequate inspection and control within the framework of the United Nations."-General Brotherhood Board, December 1959.

"We urge the President of the United States to use his influence in the community of nations to continue the ban on nuclear testing, to eliminate conventional armaments, and to develop agencies of negotiation, diplomacy, and constructive cooperation."-Annual conference, June 1961,

Senator HUMPHREY. Next is John S. Toll. (Discussion off the record.)

STATEMENT OF JOHN S. TOLL, CHAIRMAN, FEDERATION OF AMERICAN SCIENTISTS, UNIVERSITY OF MARYLAND, ACCOMPANIED BY DANIEL M. SINGER, GENERAL COUNSEL, FEDERATION OF AMERICAN SCIENTISTS

Senator HUMPHREY. Professor Toll is chairman of the Federation of American Scientists, University of Maryland.

Mr. TOLL. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

As you have said, I am testifying today as chairman of the Federation of American Scientists. We feel, Mr. Chairman, that you have taken such leadership in this field and know so much about it that I can dispense with the actual giving of much of my testimony if it can be given as read.

Senator HUMPHREY. It will be printed as if delivered with Demosthenes' impact.

Mr. TOLL. Thank you, sir. I do know the fine work you have done in this field, your marvelous article in Daedalus in the field of Gov

ernment organization in disarmament, which was chosen this fall as a book of the month selection and your very fine speech that you gave to us last spring in our Federation of American Scientists, so we know there is no need to go into great detail about our organization. I would, however, like to touch on a few points.

SUPPORT FOR S. 2180

The Federation of American Scientists does strongly support the passage of S. 2180. We feel it is admirably drafted with the necessary authority and flexibility to carry out the important responsibilities in the field of disarmament and arms control negotiation.

Senator HUMPHREY. May I interrupt to point out this bill is the end product of a long period of study in the executive branch of the Government under the leadership of Mr. McCloy at the direction of the President and the Secretary of State, along with Members of Congress who have been active in this. Mr. Fischer, Deputy to the Administrator, is here.

This bill has been passed around to the agencies affected, and the Bureau of the Budget, so that it has had what you might call the refinement of the legislative drafting service, by the men who are competent and able in this field. Therefore, I think it represents the composite thinking of Washington officialdom and the National Government.

I just wanted to make that clear to you so that it will be clear to all those who testify. This is not a bill perfected by Senator Humphrey or any of my cosponsors. It is one that belongs to all of us who have been interested in this work.

Mr. TOLL. We know, sir, the very important part you have played in this. But we are also aware of the fact that this bill has been very carefully drafted. Our federation has been urging such a bill for over 10 years. We have closely watched the preparation and study that has gone into this. We have talked to the officials of the administration involved about their portion of the draft.

BACKGROUND OF FEDERATION'S INTEREST IN S. 2180

I would like to mention the particular reasons the federation is interested in this bill. Our federation was formed initially by individual groups, developed at the various atomic development centers during the Second World War. After these groups came together, they formed in 1946 the Federation of American Scientists which included initially over 90 percent of the technical personnel at these various atomic development centers. We have a continuing interest, therefore, in the problems presented by the development of atomic weapons. But our growth has included scientists not only in this field of atomic development, but other scientists as well. We have therefore a continuing awareness of the problem.

Many of our members have contributed intimately, many of us have worked on the development of atomic weapons and we know the awesome dread that is posed to us by the destructiveness of these weapWe all know, for example, that it is possible to build weapons with an impact far greater than those we have at the present time. Chairman Khrushchev just mentioned the U.S.S.R. could build a 100

ons.

megaton weapon. Dr. Weisner, President Kennedy's science adviser, says that scientists now believe they can produce a bomb of 1,000 megatons. We know there is no real limit imposed on thermonuclear weapons and their size. It is only the practicality which keeps us from building them. We can build one in practice as large as you

wish.

DANGER OF ARMS RACE

The really much more dreadful possibility is the proliferation of these weapons, the refinement, the complication that is being introduced. These weapons are becoming much more refined, necessarily, as they develop. As they become more refined, as they become more compact, as the missiles to carry them are developed, as we go from liquid to solid fuels, as guidance systems are developed and refined, these weapons become easier to fuel, to direct and so our peril increases. Even more significantly, many new nations are entering into this arms race, as mentioned often in the testimony, so we are quite aware that the peril is very great. We do have the possibility now of destroying civilization, even of destroying all of mankind. We are quite aware of this because we have worked in the field and we understand the peril.

RELATIONSHIP OF DISARMAMENT AGENCY TO STRENGTHENING OF DEFENSE ESTABLISHMENT

We feel nothing is more important than the action Congress has taken in this session to start a disarmament policy on behalf of the United States. We feel it is particularly important that this be done at this time now that Congress has, by strong bipartisan support. given President Kennedy his request for strengthening of our Defense Establishment. We think it is very important that we take at the same time the steps he has requested to make in negotiations for disarmament. He stressed in his inaugural address that U.S. policy must always have two facets as exemplified in the national seal, the arrow in one hand, the olive branch in the other.

By your defense appropriation, you have given him the arrows. By the enactment of this bill, S. 2180, you will be giving him the olive branch.

PROVISIONS OF S. 2180

We have examined the detailed provisions in the bill and we think they are excellent. I do not wish to waste time now in commenting on most of these. We do think it is very important that the Agency retain the great authority given by this bill. We make a special point that adequate provision be given for key personnel. It is a difficult job. You have to have authority to get adequate men with such talent. It has been given by the Congress in other bills, the AEC, the Science Foundation. We think it is essential that the same be provided here. We think it is very important that the authority and flexibility will be preserved through this enactment.

NEED FOR CONGRESSIONAL INTEREST IN S. 2180

Senator HUMPHREY. I am going to suggest to you, Professor, that as the chairman of the Federation of American Scientists testifying in behalf of your organization, you alert the members of your organization to this bill, as your testimony so well states. You have many influential members. I know of very few organizations that have a membership with the influence and prestige of your organization. You can be very helpful. But you will have to bestir yourselves. It takes more than just testimony, you know, of a fine witness. It takes a lot of activity.

Mr. TOLL. We will certainly do all we can, sir. We have already distributed copies of the bill and supporting statements to all of our members. They hardly have to be told. They are working very actively. We are having briefing breakfasts, as you know, for Members of Congress.

Senator HUMPHREY. How many chapters do you have throughout the country?

Mr. TOLL. Fifteen chapters and groups.

Senator HUMPHREY. How many members, about?

Mr. SINGER. Over 20,000.

Senator HUMPHREY. That is a very significant group of men and

women.

Mr. TOLL. I think the significance is not only in the numbers but in the character of the people. Many of these men have worked on the development of the weapons, many are working on them at the present time. They are contributing to the Nation's defense in any way they can. But they are eager, having done everything we can in the development of these weapons, to do everything that can be done to prevent mankind being destroyed.

Senator HUMPHREY. I would think some of your more renowned members would write letters to the editors of some of these newspapers and to the Congressmen and ask for an answer on where they stand, for a commitment, not for one of those thanks-for-your-views answers.

SOLVING PROBLEM OF CONTROLLING AMENDMENTS

Mr. TOLL. Could I read the concluding paragraph of our statement?

Senator HUMPHREY. Yes.

Mr. TOLL. No one can know when or if the work of this Agency will be brought to a successful conclusion. We should view this expenditure for studies to find means of controlling armaments much as we view present efforts to solve other human problems.

Our Government now spends 20 times more money annually on the elimination of cancer than is now contemplated for this Agency's initial work in arms control. No one can predict when the cancer research effort will yield a major cure for this dread disease; yet we all agree that this expenditure offers hopes of great benefits to mankind and is well justified.

If our generation suffers a thermonuclear war between the major powers, many more of us will die from the effects of nuclear weapons than from cancer. War has indeed become the probable major killer