The Prosecuting Attorney: Negotiations should have been made with the German Reich; instead of Dr. Schuschnigg, the NationalSocialist Seyss-Inquart was the negotiating party on the Austrian side and you knew indeed what course Seyss-Inquart had set and in what direction Seyss-Inquart was heading. Seyss-Inquart, who was made head of the Austrian government by desire of the opposing side, could not follow a course which was against the wishes of Germany. In your place, I would have resigned. You should not have sworn in the National Socialist Government.

The President: Were you of the opinion that there was a possibility of negotiating with the German party even after SeyssInquart succeeded Dr. Schuschnigg?

The Witness: I was of the opinion that there was a possibility of negotiation with Germany.

The President: Did you still have Austria's independence in mind at that time?

The Witness: I thought that Austria might perhaps remain a semi-sovereign state. I also had good news from Bavaria. For there were opponents in the German Reich who were not in agreement with the tyrannical system of the National-Socialists. We had to bring up all these possibilities during the negotiations. The Prosecuting Attorney: Little Austria?

The Witness: Yes, little Austria. Even Seyss-Inquart had to consult with his politicians at home; he couldn't act entirely on his own initiative.

The Prosecuting Attorney: As President, you were acquainted with the programme of the National-Socialists?

The Witness: Yes.

The Defence Counsel: There were indeed Austrians among the ministers in the Seyss-Inquart government. Did you not also know Dr. Neumayer to be a responsible Austrian official?

The Witness: I knew him to be a very useful and able Finance Minister, and in this, the political bias of Dr. Neumayer was of no interest to me. The person of primary importance for me was the Chancellor who chose his own officials. I saw Seyss-Inquart as an Austrian who must have known that Austria must remain a country and a people.

The Defence Counsel: Did you consider Dr. Neumayer a good Austrian and not as a National-Socialist?

The Witness: I did not think Dr. Neumayer was one of the radical Nazis. I did not know that he had any connection with national or National-Socialist circles. I knew Dr. Neumayer as an Austrian official.

When, after the ministers had been sworn in, you spoke to the

accused and told him that you would not remain President for long under the pressure to which you were subjected, you said that the accused was somewhat astonished. Did you have the least idea that this accused had committed treason, that he might be a traitor?

The Witness: No.

The Defence Counsel: Mr. President, did you state the following at your interrogation before the examining judge: "As is well-known, Schuschnigg had handed me his resignation already on the afternoon of 11.3.1938-it was announced at 7 o'clock in the evening-but I had naturally entrusted him at once with the task of continuing the conduct of government affairs with a view to forming a new government. He and Dr. Guido Schmidt, his Foreign Minister, remained at the Chancellor's office throughout the evening and night of 11.3.1938 until after midnight, most of the time with me; they kept me continually informed about what was happening outside, also about the progress of the NationalSocialist revolution in Vienna and in the provinces of the federation, [Bundeslandern] about the occupation of the most important nerve centres of public administration, about the hopeless answers to appeals for help made by the Austrian Foreign Office to Rome, Paris, London and other capitals. (Ludwig, the ambassador, had telephoned). Soon after, Vienna Radio was transmitting National-Socialist reports and, since 10 o'clock in the evening, the swastika flag had been flying from the roof of the Vienna office of Chief of Police on the Schottenring, while the crowd of National-Socialists assembled in front of the Chancellor's office grew denser and about 40 of them, said to be a deputation, were admitted to the closed Chancellor's office through the back door, and that by the Minister of the Interior, Dr. SeyssInquart. The guard detachment on watch must have looked on full of wrath; I learned of it only on the next day." Were you of the opinion that, from the moment Dr. Schuschnigg resigned from the office of Chancellor, the Austrian government still possessed some power, or had the power already been transferred then de facto to the National-Socialists?

The Witness: My statements before the examining judge are correct. At that time, the Schuschnigg government had, de facto, no powers whatsoever.

The Defence Counsel: You know that the accused still remained in the Seyss-Inquart Cabinet later on. Have you personally ever held this against him?

The Witness: No, on the contrary, I was glad that there were

Austrians of conviction in the Seyss-Inquart Government, who, in my opinion, had somehow taken office in Austria's interests.

The President: Did you or any member of your family approach the accused with any personal request at any subsequent time? Because you stated before the examining judge: "In early summer 1939, when my eldest son, Finance commissar (retired), was discharged from state service, and was endeavouring to find another post, the family advised him to apply to Dr. Neumayer, his former Minister, who might perhaps find him a job in the Vienna City Insurance Concern, of which he had become the director in the meanwhile. My son was indeed received by Dr. Neumayer but his request came to naught. At any rate, Dr. Neumayer's attitude was one of refusal."

The Defence Counsel states in this connection: The statement that Dr. Neumayer's attitude in this matter was one of refusal must have been based on incorrect records or on erroneous records.

The Witness states in this connection: In the year 1939, my oldest son, Dr. Wilhelm Miklas, who was in the Ministry of Finance, was dismissed from the state service by the Nazis. He then joined the army, spent 4 winters in the East and, at the beginning of the fifth winter, he was taken prisoner by the Russians and died of spotted fever in a prisoner-of-war camp North of Lemberg. That was the middle of October. He was the third victim of the war. Of his [or "my". Typing not clear] seven sons, who were all conscripted, three were killed, two are still prisoners and two returned home a few weeks ago.

I can no longer remember what I said before the examining judge with reference to my son. My eldest son made various attempts to gain a post but unfortunately in vain. As far as I know, he also applied to the accused. But this effort too was unsuccessful, he did not obtain the desired post.

The Witness Dr. Wolfgang Troll: Personal particulars in File No. 22 and adds: living in Vienna III., Neulinggasse 18, no relation of the defendant, after having been warned to tell the truth, and after formal taking of the oath, states: I have known the defendant since 1936. It must have been in November, at the time Dr. Neumayer entered the Schuschnigg Cabinet as Finance Minister.

The President: In what capacity did you make the acquaintance of the defendant?

The Witness: In my capacity as Recorder of the Cabinet Council. I was the Recorder at the Cabinet Council meetings. For

ten or twelve years it was my task to make the arrangements for the Cabinet Council meetings and take the minutes.

The President: Do you still remember when the Cabinet Council sat, following the journey of Chancellor Dr. Schuschnigg to Berchtesgaden. The journey to Berchtesgaden was on 12.II.1938. The Cabinet Council meeting which followed it took place then about a few days later.

The Witness: I remember that.

The President: What information on the discussion with Hitler did the Chancellor at that time give the Ministers, and also to the accused who was present?

The Witness Dr. Troll: The Cabinet Council meeting must have been held on the 16.II.1938. At this meeting Dr. Schuschnigg said quite briefly that he had been to Obersalzberg, that the matter had not worked out at all well; but he did not give further details at the Cabinet Council meeting regarding what had happened at Obersalzberg.

The President: We want to ascertain what the defendant knows or could have known from this Cabinet Council meeting.

The Witness Dr. Troll: I also did not ascertain any further details. I was the Recorder. The Chancellor did not mention individual details. Dr. Schuschnigg did not state what demands Hitler made at Berchtesgaden at that time. I believe the Chancellor made no mention of this at the meeting.

The President: Do you remember whether the Chancellor said that Hitler had demanded that Seyss-Inquart should enter Dr. Schuschnigg's Government as Minister of the Interior?

The Witness: I believe I remember that. I do believe that the Chancellor said that.

The President: The Chancellor said that he was put under great pressure.

The Witness Dr. Troll: One could have got that impression. The President: The next Cabinet Council meeting was with the newly formed Cabinet: Dr. Pilz, Dr. Taucher had already left and in their place was the new Cabinet with Seyss-Inquart as Minister of the Interior. That was on 21.II.1938. Could you tell us anything about this Cabinet Council meeting which took place between 21.II. and 11.III.1938?

The Witness Dr. Troll: On 11.III.1938 there was no Cabinet Council meeting. It must have been in the previous week, that is, in the period between the 3rd and 7th March 1938. So far as I know, at that time as well as on 21.II.1938 only technical matters were discussed at the meeting. What happened on the fol

lowing day I no longer remember as the particulars regarding this were lost.

The President: Was it mentioned at these meetings how much freedom was to be given to the native National Socialists with regard to whether the wearing of the swastika was to be permitted or whether that was to be permitted only within certain limits or whether the German greeting might be used, etc.?

The Witness Dr. Troll: I cannot remember having heard anything at all about such matters. It was not customary to discuss political matters at the meetings. Political events were discussed beforehand, outside the meetings so that the Cabinet Council had only to carry out the formal passing of resolutions regarding pertinent matters.

The President: Do you know whether the defendant was called in to these discussions outside the Cabinet Council?

The Witness Dr. Troll: I don't know,-for those discussions usually took place at the Chancellor's place; I do not know who was invited to them.

The President: What do you remember about the events of 11.III.1938?

The Witness Dr. Troll: A Cabinet Council meeting had been fixed for midday on 11.III.1938. However, he never came to it. The events of that time took place in rapid succession. In the course of the afternoon, the Secretary of State Dr. Kepler, appeared. He wore a uniform, and I noted that at that time I did not know the uniforms. Discussions then took place between the Chancellor and Minister Seyss-Inquart in the office of the Chancellor in the course of the afternoon, towards evening. I do not know the purport of these discussions, as I was not present at these discussions. The conclusion of the discussion was that the Chancellor, Dr. Schuschnigg came out of his office and then made his well-known farewell speech on the radio, which he delivered at the microphone in the ante-room. That was between 7 and 8 o'clock in the evening. This was preceded by discussions between Dr. Schuschnigg and Minister Seyss-Inquart. I do not know whether Dr. Schuschnigg also had discussions with the President. The President: Are you informed about the proceedings in the Office of the Chancellor after Dr. Schuschnigg's farewell speech? The Witness Dr. Troll: After the Chancellor's farewell speech I still stayed on at the office until about 2 a.m. I can no longer remember whether at that time I saw the defendant. At that time the Government was being formed. I only saw the members of newly formed Cabinet again when they came out of the cham