crops, as well as your feed crops down, likewise wheat; and when you have done that, the agricultural economy can be brought back into balance with the Nation's economy.

Mr. BEST. That is right.

Senator THYE. And, therefore, management of the soil-the number of acres tilled-is a problem that this committee and this United States Government must be concerned with?

Mr. BEST. That is right.

Senator THYE. There is no other way that I can see it. I am a producer myself, and I know very well that you cannot manage it in any other way. That is all, Mr. Chairman.

The CHAIRMAN. There is only one question that I would like to ask

you.

You seem to be for no program. What would your milk and butter and cheese be selling for now if you did not have the present program of 75 percent of parity?

Mr. BEST. We need a program, but we could have gotten by without this program, or without a de luxe program, with as much money spent as we have spent. We could have gotten by without a lot of that a long while ago, if you fellows in Washington would have gotten started on the right track a long while ago, to my way of thinking. The CHAIRMAN. We are trying to do our best, Mr. Best, but I repeat the question: What would your milk, your butter, and your cheese, and other dairy products be selling for today if you did not have the support-price program?

Mr. BEST. Probably a nickel a quart.

The CHAIRMAN. So that you are in favor of the program then?
Mr. BEST. Yes; but not the kind we have got now forever.

The CHAIRMAN. I hope so, too. I hope the dairy people can solve their own problems, but you know some time ago, about 2 years ago, the dairy people employed Bob Hope to sell milk. He might sell lingerie, but not milk. I would suggest that the dairy people try to employ Hopalong Cassidy, and these other cowboys, to demonstrate that milk is for children. I have five grandsons, and I dare you to make them eat anything except Hopalong Cassidy products, and other things like that. [Applause.].

Senator MUNDT. How about Davy Crockett?

The CHAIRMAN. He is all right, too.

Are there any further questions? If not, Mr. Best, we are very thankful to you.

The CHAIRMAN. Our next witness is Mr. Oscar Berning, of St. Michael, Minn.

Will you state your name in full, please, sir, and your occupation?

STATEMENT OF OSCAR A. BERNING, ST. MICHAEL, MINN.

Mr. BERNING. My name is Oscar A. Berning. I am from St. Michael, Minn., where I operate a farm of 385 acres in partnership with 2 of my sons, 1 of whom is in the service at the present time. The operations are about 75 percent dairy, grade A fluid milk, and 25 percent hog. I am vice president of the board of directors of the St. Michael Cooperative Creamery Association and have been on the board since 1923. I am the director of district 9 on the Land O'Lakes board of directors and have been since 1934.

As a member of the board of directors of Land O'Lakes Creameries, I have participated in the studies made having to do with the marketing agreement and order program authorized by the Agricultural Marketing Agreement Act of 1937, as amended, and I am one who endorsed the position of Land O'Lakes and the National Milk Producers Federation on the Marketing Agreement Act of 1937. This act was developed to correct the demoralized conditions of fluid-milk markets which followed the economic collapse in 1929. The operations of the Federal milk-marketing orders have been satisfactory to producers supplying the markets using the program, and the market stability created by the Federal orders has had a healthy influence

I oppose any change in the Agricultural Marketing Agreement Act. Any change in the legislation could have a far-reaching effect on producers and on the whole dairy economy. No legislation is perfect, and no administration of a program is perfect. By the same token, the many criticisms which are from time to time aimed at the Federal order program should not be presumed to be valid without detailed investigation of the facts and of the consequences which might result from change.

I am aware of the criticisms of the Federal order program. We have been working diligently in an effort to appraise each criticism. Any suggestions that we might have to improve the Federal order program at the present time can be implemented within the framework of the present legislation. We are aware of the fact that all producers do not benefit to the same degree from the Federal order program. We feel very strongly, however, that we should work toward improving the position of those producers who do not receive the benefits from the Federal order program rather than to tear down a good program in order that all producers might be at the same disadvantage or suffer equally.

Federal milk marketing orders are highly technical and complicated and they are of tremendous economic importance. The milk business is highly technical and complicated. On April 28, 1955, the National Milk Producers Federation presented an educational background statement on Federal orders before the House Agriculture Dairy Subcommittee. We feel that this statement should be included in the record of this committee and that it will be helpful in creating a better understanding of the problems of marketing milk.

In conclusion let me reiterate our position: Let's protect and preserve the Agricultural Marketing Agreement Act in its present form, and let's direct our efforts to improve the position of all dairy farmers rather than tear down a program that has proved its worth conclusively over a great number of years.

The CHAIRMAN. Are there any questions?

Senator HUMPHREY. Mr. Berning, as I understand it, your position. on the dairy program is different from that of the preceding witness, Mr. Best.

Mr. BERNING. Not very much-in a little way it is. I am stressing the technicalities, that we cannot go too fast. We have to be careful of doing things right.

Senator HUMPHREY. You do believe in support of the Federal milk marketing orders?

Mr. BERNING. That is right.

Senator HUMPHREY. That is Federal?

Mr. BERNING. That is Federal.

Senator HUMPHREY. Do you support any price-support programs? Mr. BERNING. The price-support program that I would really like to see, I would like to make it a parallel line on it, to answer it that way-labor is getting a raise every blooming year when we are going down, and we are going down from 100 percent parity to 75 percent, and lower. And the Lord knows where we are going to end. And they are still going to take a raise.

How would you like it with 1 guy going up the steps, 1 or 2 steps a year, and you are going down?

Well, we are on that low end. We do not like it.

If they are entitled to have 100-percent parity, I do not see any reason why we are not. That is our money and our labor that is on the farm.

Senator HUMPHREY. That is correct.

Mr. BERNING. The other is on the paycheck, but my paycheck comes out of hogs and cows.

Senator HUMPHREY. What is your constructive proposal on that, Mr. Berning?

Mr. BERNING. The way I would like to put it, these things are highly technical. We have in our cooperative movement such experts hired as Frank Stone, of Land O'Lakes, and the National Dairy Milk Producers. We would like to see you boys listen to those boys when they talk to you down in Congress, because they know more about the technicalities than we do on the farms. We are actually farming. When it comes to technicalities, we depend upon them, the same as you do a bank or anybody else. When you get into trouble, you hire an attorney to do the technical work. That is what we have those men

for.

Senator HUMPHREY. Let me say, we have the highest regard for them and we do depend upon them for their advice and counsel. Mr. BERNING. I am glad to hear that.

Senator HUMPHREY. One final question. One of our earlier witnesses, I believe Mr. Ausman, suggested a Federal Milk Sanitation Code. Since you have had such long experience in this dairy program, what is your feeling about that?

Mr. BERNING. Well, I would like to see the Federal Milk Sanitation Code national. That would be acceptable in any State of the 48 States of the United States.

Senator HUMPHREY. You would like some uniformity?

Mr. BERNING. Uniformity all the way through. Whether I raise that milk in Minnesota or it is raised in Washington, D. C., if you come through on the Federal code, I do not see where there should be any fence put around it.

Senator HUMPHREY. You feel that is something this committee might very well spend its time on and look into very carefully? Mr. BERNING. That is right.

Senator HUMPHREY. I want to thank you very much.

The CHAIRMAN. Are there any further questions?

Senator HOLLAND. Mr. Berning, I am not sure that I understand your position. I understood you to say originally that you did not want to see any amendment or radical change in the Federal Market

ing Order Agreement Act for milk. Now I have understood you in your most recent statement to say that you would like to see a Federal Sanitary Code which would operate to change the field of operation of the marketing agreement milkshed, the marketing agreements which have been built under that act. Just what is your position?

Mr. BERNING. In that Marketing Act we have a chance on our acres to fit that every year, to make a change, and I think that is the proper time to do it. In a short conference like we have here, you know as well as I do that it is impossible to go down into that Federal marketing order at all, because it will just take days and days of hearings when you tackle it. There is so much technicality in it.

In this statement I have presented it has brought in that point that we have that opportunity to it settle from year to year.

Senaor HOLLAND. You mean by that, that you have the opportunity to change the contents of the marketing agreement?

Mr. BERNING. That is right.

Senator HOLLAND. To change, therefore, the administration of the act?

Mr. BERNING. Yes.

Senator HOLLAND. But that you do not favor the amendment of the act or the change of the act itself, is that what you mean?

Mr. BERNING. That is right.

Senator HOLLAND. One more question. I noticed with interest that you are a director of the Land O'Lakes Creameries, which is an organization all of us know about, and respect for its size and for its stature, and in many other ways.

Do you appear here for that organization or just for yourself?

Mr. BERNING. I appear for myself. I only try to point out as a farmer, when I come down here and try to tell you what plan I would like to see, this and that in my own language. I will call it a sideline. My business is farming, and I am getting stuck a lot of times.

Now, true, organizations like Land O'Lakes Creameries, National Milk Federation, et cetera, the Farm Bureau, and what have you, true those boys they hire their attorneys and special technicians and the like. That way they get the technicalities out of the way. We have not time to study that. So we pay for them. So we get fellows that really do the work for us.

Senator HOLLAND. Do you favor or not the suggestion of Mr. Ausman that as to the processed products, particularly the dried milk and the canned milk, that the marketing agreement orders not be applicable to the movement of those processed products?

Mr. BERNING. The way he brought it out there, if I got it right, when a milkshed has 50 percent or more surplus milk and then manufactures it, whether he turns it into cheese, powder, butter or whatnot, and thereby undersells us in the Middle West, plus the freight differential, we do not have a chance. And they are taking the money out of the Federal ordering marketing place. That is fine and dandy, but I do not see where they should put enough on that marketing milk to have enough left over, so that they can also take us on the commercial milk.

The CHAIRMAN. We thank you very much. That is, if there are not any further questions. If not, is Mr. Bowe present? If not, the next will be Mr. William Cassavant, of Oklee, Minn.

Mr. CASSAVANT. I was given time on this program, but I am a grain farmer, and I would like, with your permission to relinquish my time, and give my time to this gentleman. I would like to appear on the program tomorrow on grain and beef cattle.

The CHAIRMAN. What is your name?

Mr. CASSAVANT. My name is William Cassavant.

The CHAIRMAN. Who is the gentleman?

Mr. CASSAVANT. I just met him once. He can give you his name. The CHAIRMAN. Very well.

STATEMENT OF RAY POXLEITNER, SAUM, MINN.

Mr. POXLEITNER. My name is Ray Poxleitner.

The CHAIRMAN. Will you give us your occupation?

Mr. POXLEITNER. I am a dairy farmer.

The CHAIRMAN. Have you a prepared statement that you wish to present?

Mr. POXLEITNER. I have a statement here from Red Lake Falls, Clearwater, Beltrami, and Pennington Counties Farmers Union. The CHAIRMAN. Are you speaking for these farmers?

Mr. POXLEITNER. Yes.

The CHAIRMAN. Proceed.

Mr. POXLEITNER. This is the program

The CHAIRMAN. How long is your statement?

witnesses to hear today.

We have about 70

Mr. POXLEITNER. It is not necessary to read it all. I would like to have it go in the record, however. It is just two pages long. The CHAIRMAN. Very well. What is your name again?

Mr. POXLEITNER. Ray Poxlietner.

This involves 1,619 dairy farmers from those 4 counties, and I have been selected to speak for the dairymen because they feel that I have an average-size dairy herd, and I am right in the middle of the thing.

We have these problems that come up from time to time, and we finally came out this week with a smaller group. This is our resolu

tion:

Resolved, We, the representatives of the 1,619 farm families of the Pennington, Red Lake, Clearwater, and Beltrami County Farmers' Union, go on record as favoring the adoption of the following resolutions as necessary steps in the dairy-support program that must be adopted by the last half of the 84th Congress:

1. We favor 100 percent supports for all dairy products.

2. We favor supports on dairy products through a compensatory payment direct to the producer, thereby eliminating the cost of storage and giving the benefit of lower food prices to the consumer.

3. We favor a limitation of supports at $25,000 gross sales annually for any farm enterprise.

4. We are opposed to the modernized parity formula and recommend that any parity formula adopted be based on the cost of living and production and must retain the soundness and stability of the old parity formula.

5. We urge that all dairy products be excluded from import at any time domestic prices fall below 100 percent of parity.

6. If production controls become necessary, they should be on the unit base, and any farm enterprise below $5,000 gross sales annually