Would they give up hope now, for instance, and not do anything more to help themselves, and just give in to appeasement if the Senate should not vote anything, or Congress should not vote anything to implement the pact?

Ambassador HARRIMAN. No. I think they will go ahead, but I think it will raise doubts. I think you will have a serious set-back if we don't go ahead with the pact.

Senator WATKINS. I meant the implementation. I said, suppose we ratify the pact but we do not vote any military relief.

Ambassador HARRIMAN. I testified, Senator, at length this morning that I believed we would never recapture the present wave of enthusiasm and spirit of mutual cooperation which exists and which is growing today in Europe.

Senator WATKINS. What would happen if we did not ratify the pact and would just go on with our European recovery program?

Ambassador HARRIMAN. I think there would be a reorientation. Those people in each country that have some confidence in appeasement and neutrality would see that there would be a rediscussion of all of that, and a restrengthening of those that believe in appeasement and neutrality would result.

NEED FOR AMERICAN ASSISTANCE

Senator WATKINS. Is it a fact that they feel that they cannot, for any foreseeable time now, stand on their own feet without our assistance?

Ambassador HARRIMAN. I do not know what "foreseeable" is. I believe they feel that with our assistance they can strengthen their military establishment to the point where they can live in a sense of security and go to bed at night feeling that they can get up in the morning without some bad news.

Senator WATKINS. I get from one of the statements you made here in your general statement that without the United States their case is practically hopeless. I wondered how long that would be that way, how long we would have to be their mainstay.

Ambassador HARRIMAN. The European recovery program was undertaken as a 4-year program and accepted as a 4-year program by the European nations, and they have worked to carry out what they have to do to make it a success. I cannot discuss the military aspects

of it, as that is not before us at the present time.

Senator WATKINS. You can discuss how they feel.

Ambassador HARRIMAN. They have great confidence in their ability, talking about the Europeans. The Europeans feel that they will fight, and they have fought well in the past, and will do so again to protect their soil, but at the present time it will take them so long to reestablish their military establishments that they want our help to expedite the day.

RECOVERY AND THE ATLANTIC TREATY

Senator WATKINS. Do you think they would give up completely if we did not ratify this pact but went on with our economic assistance? Ambassador HARRIMAN. Without any economic assistance? They wouldn't give up; they would battle it through. But it is my judg

ment economic conditions would deteriorate again and there would be the same difficulties, or similar difficulties, that existed in 1947, and what we put into it would be lost.

Senator WATKINS. In other words, after having had the European recovery program in operation a year, it is your considered judgment that these people feel over there that without the pact they are practically lost, and their condition will disintegrate again back to 1947? Ambassador HARRIMAN. Senator, they look upon this as a 4-year program. No one over there felt the job could be done-no informed person; I don't know what the individual people felt-that it could be done in a year.

Senator WATKINS. I said, let us carry out the European recovery program to the full 4 years. If we do not take in the pact, or if we do not ratify the pact, then do they take the position that without the pact they will not be able to get on their feet and they will disintegrate again back to 1947 conditions?

Ambassador HARRIMAN. No. I thought you meant if we stopped the European recovery program.

If you carry along the European recovery program without the confidence that comes from the pact itself, it will be more difficult to achieve the objective. The economic situation, in my judgment, will not be as sound at the end of 4 years as it would be with the pact. But certainly progress will have been made, but it won't be the full realization of what I believe is in our national interest to development of, as I said, strong partners in the struggle for freedom and peace in which we are engaged.

POSSIBILITY OF WAR

Senator WATKINS. Mr. Ambassador, in your opinion are we moving away from imminent war or are we moving nearer to it?

Ambassador HARRIMAN. I have testified before this committee that I did not believe that war was inevitable, and I felt if the programs that we had before us could be developed, war could be avoided, and I am more encouraged in that conviction now than I ever have been. I am extremely optimistic, personally, that our policies as they have been developed are bearing fruit.

Senator WATKINS. I do not think I got quite what I asked for. I wanted to know whether in your opinion we were moving toward war or away from it.

Ambassador HARRIMAN. I thought I testified to that effect. We are moving away from it.

Senator WATKINS. What I would like to get your opinion on is this: Whether or not the present situation is such that if we do not adopt this pact we are likely to face war, and that that prospect is imminent. Ambassador HARRIMAN. I do not think that anyone can answer that categorical question.

Senator WATKINS. All I want is your opinion.

Ambassador HARRIMAN. My opinion is that we further the interests of peace by carrying through this program, and we will develop strong partners which we need, in my judgment, as we look around the world, to help us further the interests of peace all over the world. That is all I can say, Senator.

Senator WATKINS. I have no further questions.

The CHAIRMAN. The committee will stand in recess until Monday at 10:30.

We thank you very much, Mr. Ambassador. You have made a very clear and very comprehensive statement in view of the questions that have been asked you, all of which were not, in my opinion, pertinent to the issue before the committee.

Ambassador HARRIMAN. I am grateful for the opportunity you have given me to appear before you.

(Whereupon, at 1:25 p. m., the committee adjourned, to reconvene on Monday, May 2, 1949, at 10:30 a. m.)

NORTH ATLANTIC TREATY

MONDAY, MAY 2, 1949

UNITED STATES SENATE, COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN RELATIONS, Washington, D. C.

The committe met, pursuant to adjournment on April 29, 1949, in room 318, Senate Office Building, at 10:30 a. m., Senator Tom Connally, chairman of the committee, presiding.

Present: Senators Connally, George, Thomas of Utah, Green, McMahon, Fulbright, Vandenberg, Hickenlooper, and Lodge. Also present: Senators Donnell and Watkins.

The CHAIRMAN. The committee will please come to order.

This is the Foreign Relations Committee of the United States Senate, holding hearings on the North Atlantic Pact. We are fortunate this morning in having present Mr. Lovett, former Under Secretary of State, whom we wish to interrogate. Mr. Lovett is familiar, I assume I assume it is a sound assumption-with the North Atlantic Pact, and is reputed to have been one of the early people who had contact with its formation, and so forth. We will be very glad to hear you on the matter, Mr. Lovett, and we shall try to accommodate ourselves as much as possible to your convenience.

Mr. LOVETT. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. I have a short prepared statement here, copies of which are on the way up to the committee now, and if it meets with the wishes of the committee I will read from this as an initial statement.

The CHAIRMAN. That is very good, and we will interrogate you afterward.

STATEMENT OF ROBERT A. LOVETT, FORMER UNDER SECRETARY OF STATE

Mr. LOVETT. Mr. Chairman, I am glad to have the opportunity to appear before this committee in support of the North Atlantic Pact with which I was directly associated in its origin and early develop

ment.

I shall not take the time of the committee by discussing the impor tance of this treaty in relation to our foreign policy or the interpretation of the actual text. These and many other points dealing with the treaty have been authoritatively and fully covered in the statements and testimony of the Secretary of State and other witnesses who have appeared before you. I shall likewise try to keep my preliminary statement brief and will then be at the disposal of the committee for any questions concerning the particular aspects of the treaty with which I was intimately and directly associated.