You can see the counts here, and if we go any later than this then the information becomes classified.

Here again, if you want copies of this, we have them down at the office.

But in terms of air defense systems, in terms of antitank weapons, artillery systems, it's just no contest, what's been coming out of their line and what's been coming out of ours.

Attack submarines, they not only outnumber us 3 to 1; they outproduce us 3 to 1.

Major surface combatants, right now we have one new one on the drawing board, coming into the fleet. That's the CG-47 Aegis cruiser. The Soviets have four brandnew ones.

Another part of the problem has been our lack of commitment. We'll start a program and then wind up canceling it midway through, or going through an exercise where there is a lot of system analysis done and we never seem to get on with it. The case in point I'll use here is our Strike cruiser. We never did build the Strike cruiser. The Soviets thought it was a pretty good idea. They now have their Kirov, and I'll pass this photo around, which is the most heavily armed cruiser in the world today. There is nothing we can do, based on the [deleted] to cope with this threat, and there are more coming out of their shipyards, and we expect about seven or eight of these in the next 5- to 7-year period.

Long range surface-to-air missiles [deleted] surface-to-surface missiles, guns, antisubmarine rockets, rapid blooming overboard chaff to counter what we have. There is nothing we have in our inventory that matches what the Soviets have done.

I'll give you an example in terms of artillery. In 1960 we had the 8-inch and the 155 Howitzer in the inventory. They were selfpropelled. The Soviets literally had nothing more than towed artillery, the old V-1-M30.

Look at what our history has been between 1960 and 1975, and look at where the Soviets have come. The Army will contend that their 152 and 122 is comparable to our M-109 and 110. I contend that that's a very conservative estimate because if you take a look at the capabilities that they've built into this piece of machinery, we don't have any comparable capability. For example, the CBR protection. They have chemical, biological, radiation protection. While we have improved our ammunition, so have they, and we're at the point now where they [deleted].

The next one, I believe, shows the surface-to-air missile systems.

In 1965-70 this was our only accomplishment. We fielded the Vulcan, which was an interim system in response to Vietnam, and the Chaparral, which again was an interim system. Basically, it was a converted Sidewinder missile.

In that same period of time the Soviets-and this doesn't tell the whole story-I'll update this for you now-have developed and deployed the SA-2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, and now, [deleted] and that's in the same period of time.

80-743 0-81--2

I showed you the Kirov. Here is our 963. This is about a 7,800-ton displacement ship, if I remember correctly. You will find that the only ordnance on the 963 is the 5-inch gun, forward and aft, and the Sea Sparrow, which is about an [deleted] missile. That is in 7,800 tons of displacement.

The CG-36 has the Tartar missile and the 5-inch gun. But relatively speaking, it looks like a Saturday night prom ship. Consider the growth potential for ordnance that you have on here. We are fielding ships today that just don't stack up against the Soviet threat. A Soviet Kashin is a 4,500-ton displacement ship, and without going into the details of it, it has the GOA-the AS-3surface-to-air missle launchers forward and aft, guns all around the ship. You have surface-to-surface long-range capable missiles on that ship, and that's a 4,500-ton displacement ship. Everything they field is loaded with ordnance, a fighting capability right now.

So while we're emphasizing design to cost, they're emphasizing design to capability.

Mr. DICKINSON. What is the difference in ranges of our antiship missiles compared to theirs? How close do we have to get to hit one of them compared to ours?

Mr. BATTISTA. That's interesting. The longest range surface to surface missile we have today is the Harpoon, and that's [deleted]. If you improve it, it will go [deleted] miles. He outranges you by at least a factor of [deleted]. He can also outrun you.