Mr. BOUTIN. The total amount in dollars, of $331.9 million that we have, that have been approved by the Public Works Committee for which funds have not either been asked in the current budget, the 1963 budget, or have not been funded previous to that. In number of projects, perhaps I can give that to you.

Mr. CRAMER. Well, you can provide it for the record. Mr. BOUTIN. We have a substantial number though. (The information asked for follows:)

GENERAL SERVICES ADMINISTRATION Construction, public buildings projects [Approved projects unfunded]

April 1963.

Hawaii, Honolulu:

Post office and courthouse.
Quarantine station and clinic.

Idaho, Boise: Courthouse and Federal office
building.

Illinois, Chicago: Federal office building.
Iowa, Des Moines: Federal office building.
Kentucky, Louisville:

Federal office building.

Post office, courthouse, customhouse (engineering and construction).

Maryland, Baltimore: Federal office building. Michigan, Detroit: Post office, courthouse (engineering and construction).

Minnesota, St. Paul: Courthouse and Fed-
eral office building).

Ohio, Cleveland: Federal office building....
Pennsylvania:

Harrisburg: Courthouse and Federal
office building.

Philadelphia: Courthouse and Federal office building.

South Carolina, Charleston: Federal office building.

Texas:

Dallas: Courthouse and Federal office building.

Fort Worth: Federal office building.....

Mr. CRAMER. Of course, you realize that under the provisions of this bill if the President saw fit to do so he could take funds from your unobligated appropriation

Mr. BOUTIN. Yes, he could.

Mr. CRAMER (continuing). And make it available to other agencies? Now, what do you think about that?

Mr. BOUTIN. Well, in the discretion of the President, if this was deemed necessary we certainly would not object to it.

Of course, in saying that, it must be realized that General Services is different than any other agency. Our funds are earmarked project by project.

Mr. BLATNIK. For specific purposes.

Mr. BOUTIN. Specifically prior to any approval of appropriations. Mr. CRAMER. But they are still

Mr. BOUTIN. We are in a different situation altogether.

Mr. CRAMER. There are still unobligated balances?

Mr. BOUTIN. That is correct.

Mr. CRAMER. And if the President should decide that those moneys should be used in other areas of public works that could be completed within a year, rather than these large projects that could not or could not be initiated in time enough, the President under the bill would have authority to allocate those funds to other areas or to this area of expenditures

Mr. BOUTIN. That is correct.

Mr. BLATNIK. Or he could do also this. This does not mean necessarily taking money away from their agency.

He could merely give a priority to, say, a small public building where there is need for it.

This also contemplates a preliminary time stage, and the decision or determination has been made.

Mr. BOUTIN. I was going to say that, Mr. Chairman. I think, perhaps, very likely this would become law and exercised that the "shoe would be on the other foot."

The chances are that GSA would be the recipient of funds, because we do have the capability of immediately going to work and providing jobs in many areas in the country.

Mr. CRAMER. Will the chairman yield?

Mr. BLATNIK. Mr. Cramer.

Mr. CRAMER. As to the money that you have available now, is there any reason why, in determining where projects should go, one of the elements should not be unemployment? Could you not channel presently off some of the projects without any authorization?

Mr. BOUTIN. Of course, this is not within our present criteria, Congressman. Right, as it is now we have to look at relative urgency only on the basis of need, and the economics involved, and we do not, in any way, look at it from the viewpoint of labor surplus areas or any other criteria. Our criteria is very clear cut.

Mr. CRAMER. Have you got any recommendations from the Area Redevelopment Administration that you go ahead with public works construction in given areas of unemployment, that they have studied and found to be unemployment areas or depressed areas?

Mr. BOUTIN. Well, we have cooperated very closely with ARA, not on this specific point of recommending or telling us where we are to put buildings

Mr. CRAMER. I am suggesting that

Mr. BOUTIN. We are working with ARA within the areas where they are trying to do something, particularly under the surplus property.

When we have available a manufacturing plant, they work very hard with the local community and GSA, trying to work out a method of putting that back into productive use. It also applies to surplus military bases-any property of this type. They have been very helpful to us and most cooperative.

Mr. BALDWIN. Mr. Chairman?

Mr. BLATNIK. Mr. Baldwin.

Mr. BALDWIN. Mr. Boutin, I have one question: Of the amounts appropriated last year, and other previous years for construction or alteration of buildings, what amount as of now is unobligated?

Mr. BOUTIN. As of right now, unobligated in the principal areas of our appropriation or do you want to limit it to construction? Mr. BALDWIN. Well, the whole works, first.

Mr. BOUTIN. Well, as far as operating expenses, public building services, out of a total available of $169.9 million we have $43.9 million available for the balance of the fiscal year.

Mr. BALDWIN. Do you have a breakdown just for construction and alteration and public buildings?

Mr. BOUTIN. Yes; I can give you that.

On construction of public buildings, including what we had carried over in previous years, and with the cycle that we have, that this committee is very familiar with, we always have a certain amount of carryover, depending upon acquisition of site, and much of this is delayed because we are waiting for urban renewal areas to open up, for local civic centers and so forth, we had atotal available of $254,834,082. We have obligated through the 28th of February $20,609,552, leaving a balance unobligated, as of the 28th, of $234,224,530. We have a breakdown of exactly when we are going to obligate the balance by project. We are going to obligate, to make it concise, between now and the 30th of June, $118,079,350. We are going to obligate after the end of this fiscal year, but from funds currently available, $101,797,400.

And then, divided between these two figures, we have a reserve for contingencies of $14,347,780. It will be just about an even division of reserve for contingencies.

Mr. BALDWIN. Now, could I ask this question?

In view of the message which we received from the President on Monday, stating that there is an urgent need for additional expenditures at this time, in order to combat unemployment, are you taking any specific action to speed up the scheduling of the obligation of these unobligated funds?

Mr. BOUTIN. Congressman, there is not a day that goes by, as my fellow employees down at GSA would tell you, that I am not urging them to get things done even before the request of the President came

out.

We try to do these things as timely as we possibly can, but there are many things that enter into it.

One of the projects, just as an illustration-we have 12 projects that we are not going to fund until after the end of this fiscal year.

For example, a border station at Lubec, Maine, the reason that we are not going to obligate the construction funds this fiscal year is that there is a new highway going through there. We were waiting for the location of that highway to select a site. We have just recently worked out the arrangements with the State of Maine's Department of

Highways who have, in turn, working with our people determined an area where we can locate the facility.

So many things, like urban renewal areas, and so forth, delay our projects. We are dependent upon others before we can select a site. We have to wait upon them.

Site selection is the biggest impediment to an orderly phasing of the projects and acceleration of the date for beginning construction. Mr. BALDWIN. Thank you.

Mr. CRAMER. Will the gentleman yield?

Mr. BALDWIN. Yes.

Mr. CRAMER. You have $234 million to be obligated in the future for construction. Right?

Mr. BOUTIN. We have $234 million which was unobligated as of February 28.

Mr. CRAMER. I think it would be of interest to the committee to know which of those projects are within depressed areas or area redevelopment areas and, thus, of course, where they would help the unemployment situation, without any further action by Congress. Mr. BOUTIN. We can supply that for the record. (The information follows:)

Construction, public buildings projects—Scheduled to be obligated Feb. 28June 30, 1962

REDEVELOPMENT AREA SEC. 5(a) CATEGORY

Michigan:

Detroit, Immigration and Naturalization Service headquarters (engineering and construction).

Wyandotte, post office, etc. (engineering and construction)..

Pennsylvania:

Johnstown, post office, etc. (engineering and construction).
Pittsburgh, Federal office building..

Mr. CRAMER. Thank you.

Mr. BLATNIK. Are there any other questions?

Mr. SCHWENGEL. Mr. Chairman, I have one I want to address to the chairman.

Is the Postmaster General to be called before this committee?
Mr. BLATNIK. No.

Mr. SCHWENGEL. It seems to me, Mr. Chairman, that he should be called, because there are many places that need post offices, and we ought to find out what his plans are and what the situation is in that

area.

And I would like to suggest that he be called, because I know of some post office buildings that have been postponed. They have acquired all of the sites and are trying to get all the people in the various communities excited about getting the site question settled, and this has been settled.

And everybody has agreed to it and now they have announced that the post office building program is going to be canceled and they are postponed.

I think we ought to find out about this, as this will have an effect on this whole thing.

Mr. BLATNIK. There is no authorization for post office buildings being built by the Post Office Department.

Am I correct? Let me ask counsel for the proper legal terminology. Those are projects that are let either by contractors

Mr. SCHWENGEL. Yes, I believe they are.

Mr. CRAMER. There is one

Mr. SULLIVAN. Mr. Schwengel, under the 1959 Buildings Act, I think it is section 16, the Post Office has the jurisdiction under that act.

They operate under a 20- or 30-year leasing arrangement or a modernization program. So there is no construction that fits into the framework of this legislation.

Mr. SCHWENGEL. But it can fit into the solution of the problem that we are dealing with.

Mr. CRAMER. Will the gentleman yield?

Mr. SCHWENGEL. Yes.

Mr. CRAMER. In addition to lease-purchase, however, is it not true that there is a very substantial annual Federal construction program being carried on outside of the post offices?

Mr. SULLIVAN. Within the framework of the post office itself. Otherwise, the post office is placed in a Federal building and it is in a different category.

That is under the jurisdiction of the General Services Administration, but, speaking purely of the post office itself, they operate strictly on a leasing arrangement or modernization program, as I understand it.

Mr. SCHWENGEL. I would like to find out why we are not going into that area when we are worried about unemployment.

We have some employment in our area, as in Davenport, and it is not as critical as in other areas, but the building of a million dollar post office there would help the economy all over the West, and there is no reason in the world, as far as I know, that this could not go for