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Mr. WINGATE. It was a staggering surplus, I know. We took them off before 1943, didn't we?

Senator EASTLAND. We took them off in 1943 for the crop of 1944. Mr. WINGATE. Yes, we had so much we let controls stay on while the war was on. What was the surplus?

Senator EASTLAND. Was it not around 13 million bales?

Mr. WINGATE. I wouldn't say it wasn't. While he is looking it up I will say we were blessed with surpluses when these two wars came

on.

Senator EASTLAND. I think we can use this surplus as a blessing. The CHAIRMAN. World War II and this little skirmish we had in Korea, which was also a war in my humble judgment, took some of the cotton, too.

Senator EASTLAND. Is it not true that up until that time under controls we had built up the biggest surplus in history at that time? Mr. WINGATE. Yes, sir.

Senator EASTLAND. Now we have been under controls in 1954 and 1955.

Mr. WINGATE. Yes, sir.

Senator EASTLAND. How much have we added to the surplus in those 2 years?

Mr. WINGATE. We have added, we are adding nearly 2 million bales this year and we added about 2 or 3 last year-2 or 212.

Senator EASTLAND. We have a surplus now of over 14 million bales, right at 14 mililon bales, of which the Government at the end of this cotton year will own 11 million bales.

Mr. WINGATE. I don't believe they figure there will be a surplus of 14 million.

The CHAIRMAN. The estimate is we will have a carryover of 14 million bales at the end of this cotton year.

Mr. BROOKS. Between 14 and 15.

Mr. WINGATE. I will say we added 3 million bales this year, then. Mr. BROOKS. That was due, one of the main reasons our exports will fall off.

Senator EASTLAND. About 2 million bales. Now, does that not show that while we have got to keep controls that the emphasis has to be on expanded markets for cotton and selling it and getting it used up?

Mr. WINGATE. I am in agreement. Part of my recommendation on this plan is to help us get a law passed that will allow the farmers, say the cotton producers, to call for referendum and let them vote and see if they want to assess themselves say, a cent a pound, a dollar a bale, $15 million this year, for research and promotion.

Senator EASTLAND. Have you any figures on the difference in the competitive position in the United States between cotton and rayon? Mr. WINGATE. Well, rayon is really making inroads on us. Senator EASTLAND. I know it is making inroads.

Mr. WINGATE. What do you mean?

Senator EASTLAND. Have you any figures as to the competitive advantage that rayon has over cotton, if any? I do not know.

Mr. WINGATE. The rayon people are spending approximately $60 million a year on research on synthetics and cotton-that takes in all-cotton about 12.

Senator EASTLAND. Do you have figures on rayon's competitive advantage on cotton pricewise?

Mr. WINGATE. They have a little advantage.

Senator EASTLAND. Do you think we have to meet that?

Mr. WINGATE. I have it here. 1945 the per capita consumption of all fibre was 29.6 pounds of which 22.2 pounds was cotton, 4.7 pounds man-made fibers; in 1954 the per capita consumption was 32.6 pounds of which 21.8 pounds was cotton, 8.2 pounds man-made fiber.

Per capita consumption increased by 3 pounds; cotton decreased 0.4. Man-made fiber increased 3.5 pounds per capita.

They are making inroads, but one of the main reasons, Senator, is that we are not promoting and doing the research to push our

cotton.

Senator EASTLAND. That has a lot to do with it, but I ask you if you have any figures on the advantage pricewise?

Mr. WINGATE. Yes, sir; and we are going to have to sell cotton on its demand. You can produce cotton cheaper than we can or I

can.

Senator EASTLAND. I have not been able to do that. I have read it. Mr. WINGATE. I know about your farm. I am not going to argue with the Senator.

Senator EASTLAND. I am just asking you for some information. Frankly, I do not know.

Mr. WINGATE. I am trying to tell you the figures, and the best I have are from Dr. Mack Horne whom I consider one of the most outstanding economists in this Nation on cotton, and the lowest production cost he has been able to figure out is 212 cents a pound in the far west in your irrigated, completely mechanized area. It comes down. In our section in Georgia it costs us on an average, for mechanized farming, 30 cents a pound.

Senator, if we go out to compete with synthetics pricewise and don't take advantage of the real advantage we have of a commodity that they can't touch if we will stay in that, we are lost here in Georgia.

Senator EASTLAND. I think there is a lot of merit in that statement, but I am trying to get in the record what rayon's advantage is pricewise, just a statement of fact. What is it? Do you know the figures? Mr. WINGATE. No, sir; I don't know. But it is 3 or 4 cents a pound. Senator EASTLAND. Is it not true that if the per capita consumption of cotton in the United States leveled off and we retained the same per capita consumption we have got right now that every 5 or 6 years, domestically we would consume a million more bales of cotton due to the increased population of the country?

Mr. WINGATE. That is right.

The CHAIRMAN. Proceed, Mr. Wingate.

Mr. WINGATE. I believe with this research program I am talking about it will allow farmers to step in and if they want to assist their own commodities by research and promotion I think that will be a wonderful way to help move some of our commodities out of the way. Now, Senator, I could go on across the board a little further on this soil bank business. Somebody asked the question the other day: What would you do out west where they rent land from the Government for grazing? He can't take out Government land, but if he is grazing so

many acres, a thousand head of cattle, he can cut to 800 or 900, whatever is his percentage and that would grow more grass and better grass on that land.

It will help the wheat man, the grain sorghum man. It will help all of us, this soil bank program, and there is no way to get the job done without the Government helping us. And I think it can be done that way.

The CHAIRMAN. I would like to repeat the question I asked a while ago. Assuming we were to take out of production 10 percent of the acreage or 40 million acres, you would still have the controls on? Mr. WINGATE. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. And what would be the minimum acreage that you would set aside for cotton production for this coming year?

Mr. WINGATE. I would say set aside, I wouldn't set aside any more than has been set aside.

The CHAIRMAN. I hope not. You would have to do less, probably. Mr. WINGATE. I would give as much acreage as you are giving right now.

The CHAIRMAN. In the probability of producing the same?

Mr. WINGATE. No, sir, because we won't. I would just gamble my neck we won't do this again in quite a few years. We could come up easily with 9 million bales next year. We are doing a big job here but you let old man weather come in and he can show you a thing or two. We are up to a bale an acre. It can change.

My idea is we have to produce something on these farms to live on. And the acreage that we have is set up on the basis of a 5 year's average to produce 10 million bales. We know our consumption is not going down. That should reduce it. I say I wouldn't go below that.

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Wingate, have you any plan to offer as to diverted acres? What would you do with those?

Mr. WINGATE. Your soil bank business will take care of them. The CHAIRMAN. I am talking about the acres that are diverted from cotton. Would you want to let a farmer plant that diverted acreage to whatever he desires?

Mr. WINGATE. Senator, we misunderstand each other about my plan because the soil bank plan, if you take 400 million out I don't mean that man to take that out and then a whole lot more.

The CHAIRMAN. Let us be specific. Suppose a farmer had 500 acres of cotton he planted last year.

Mr. WINGATE. Yes.

The CHAIRMAN. This year it becomes necessary to cut him a hundred What would you do with that hundred acres?

acres.

Mr. WINGATE. If your soil-bank business is in operation and-what is the trouble? I thought you were going to ask me a question. The CHAIRMAN. I am asking for an answer.

Mr. WINGATE. Let us say that man has a thousand acres and he has got 500 acres of cotton and the soil bank business is in and he has a hundred acres out. That is 10 percent of cultivation that is out and he has to cut a hundred acres on his cotton. He is even with the board. The CHAIRMAN. Let us say he cuts 200 acres. What do you do with the extra land? You understand my question?

Mr. WINGATE. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. What would you do with such diverted acres as may be necessary to cut back on any of these basics?

Mr. WINGATE. I would plant

The CHAIRMAN. Would you permit the farmer to plant what he wants?

Mr. WINGATE. You would have that if you have 40 million acres out of production; you would need to plant it to something else.

Senator SCHOEPPEL. Would you let him plant it to wheat?

Mr. WINGATE. Senator, we are assuming we have our basic crops still under control and he couldn't plant it to wheat under the law and I wouldn't say plant it to wheat. But if you get 40 million acres out you will have more commodities, watermelons up and down and fruits and vegetables and everything. If you get that much out you will have other crops you can switch to and get a good price.

The CHAIRMAN. Is it your judgment by cutting out 10 percent you would not need to do anything about diverted acres?

Mr. WINGATE. That would solve your diverted acres.

The CHAIRMAN. That would solve it?

Mr. WINGATE. Yes.

Senator SCHOEPPEL. At a number of these meetings we have been holding we have heard in many places the suggestion that so long as we have these tremendous surpluses we have to have acreage cuts, along the very same line Senator Ellender asked, we have asked about cross compliance.

We have another thing in here that is very important in our section of the country and that is these reclamation and irrigation projects. Many witnesses indicated we ought to cut those down until this surplus is moved off. Do you have an opinion?

Mr. WINGATE. I certainly do. I think we should slow down on some of that until, I don't say you should come to a dead standstill, but I just want to say that I have five little grandchildren and I can't imagine what they are going to be up against when they get may age. If people don't change their habits in this country and don't change our way of doing things, we will have double the population we have today. I didn't mean it just that way, Senator.

The CHAIRMAN. We had a witness in Texas whom we asked about a way to curtail or limit production of poultry. She said kill all the

roosters.

Mr. WINGATE. Senator, really and truly I inadvertently made that statement, but I want to tell you what did happen. I heard a man in a high position saying farmers would become antiquated and taking pills. I will be glad I am gone if that time comes.

Senator YOUNG. I wonder if we can go back to the soil bank and diverted acres. If you took 40 million acres out of production as you suggested, could not that 40 million acres be the same as your diverted acres, one and the same?

Mr. WINGATE. That is my point. The question Senator Young asked and Senator Ellender asked is about my diverted acres. The 40 million is the diverted acres and if it is not it has to be 45 or drop back.

Senator YOUNG. They could be one and the same acres?

Mr. WINGATE. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. If it is not equal, if 10 percent does not equal these diverted acres I am speaking of, and it could happen even under the plan you propose for cotton, you want the same acreage as we had last

year. Some have suggested that if we have diverted acres increase it; instead of 17 million acres make it 22.

Mr. WINGATE. That is my idea. The soil bank acreage, if 40 million acres was not enough, take more. That is your diverted acreage you are taking completely out.

The CHAIRMAN. So you would not permit these diverted acres to be planted to any other crop that would compete with other producers of commodities that are in trouble?

Mr. WINGATE. No, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. That is the point.

Mr. WINGATE. My point is this

The CHAIRMAN. That is the point I am after.

Mr. WINGATE. I am going to give you my answer. If 40 million acres, if you have to have diverted acres after taking out 40 million in soil bank, you haven't got my soil bank plan in operation. My soil bank plan takes out every acre you need for diverted acres. You know that thing was thrown in, Mr. Benson threw it in and he was never any happier than when he had it out of his lap. That was the hottest thing he ever had, that diverted acreage.

Senator YOUNG. Forty million acres you suggest now, is that not far in excess of our diverted acres?

Mr. WINGATE. Yes, sir. It is in excess of our diverted acres.

Senator EASTLAND. Let me see if I understand. Say a farmer takes 40 acres out of cotton and then he has a cotton allotment of 40 acres and he has 60 other acres on his farm. Now what you say is that he must plant his cotton allotment, 40-acre allotment, he must put the 40 acres he takes out of cotton in legumes?

Mr. WINGATE. That is right.

Senator EASTLAND. Something that will build up the soil.

Mr. WINGATE. That is right.

Senator EASTLAND. Then he can plant what he wants to on the other 60 as long as it is not in a crop that is under control?

Mr. WINGATE. That is exactly right. That is the plan.
Now, Senator, let me

Senator EASTLAND. Let me make this statement. You made a statement that I am very much interested in that I think is sound; very sound. You think that the acreage, cotton acreage, should be measured in advance so that there will be no underplanting?

Mr. WINGATE. That is right.

Senator EASTLAND. It is true the arid regions in the West have been planting their allotments pretty well?

Mr. WINGATE. Yes, sir.

Senator EASTLAND. Because they have planted their allotments and Georgia has underplanted they have gained a history and have taken cotton acreage away from the State of Georgia.

Mr. WINGATE. That is right.

Senator EASTLAND. When the West gains 1 acre how many acres does it cost the Southeast; it is about 3?

Mr. WINGATE. At least 3; when the West gains 1 it costs them just about 3 down here in Georgia on an average.

go back

I don't want to take up too much time, but I would like to here we have discussed the soil bank business-I would like to go back one more second to our price-support program.

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