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AFTERNOON SESSION

The CHAIRMAN. Come to order, please.

Mr. Lipscomb, please. Will you give your name in full, and your occupation.

STATEMENT OF JACK M. LIPSCOMB, GAFFNEY, S. C.

Mr. LIPSCOMB. Jack M. Lipscomb.

The CHAIRMAN. Your occupation is farmer?

Mr. LIPSCOMB. Farmer. I would like to say a few words about the percentage basis for my acres.

of cotton.

I have 500 acres and I have 11 acres

The CHAIRMAN. You have 500 acres in cultivation?

Mr. LIPSCOMB. That is what I was supposed to have. That is all the land I own, 500 acres, pasture, and other crops.

The CHAIRMAN. Timber, too?

Mr. LIPSCOMB. Yes.

The CHAIRMAN. How many of those are in cultivation?

Mr. LIPSCOMB. I suppose 300 cleared acres.

The CHAIRMAN. What is the most cotton you ever planted on that 300?

Mr. LIPSCOMB. I had a hundred acres.

The CHAIRMAN. How long ago was that?

Mr. LIPSCOMB. 1944.

The CHAIRMAN. How did you come to lose it?

Mr. LIPSCOMB. I went to the peach business. Cotton was so cheap I went into the peach business and in 1946 that was the last crop we made of peaches. Cold weather got us every year since. My son had 200 acres, wife and 4 children, and they give him five-tenths of an

acre.

The CHAIRMAN. The reason is you thought peaches would be more beneficial, so you got out of cotton? You couldn't make it on peaches and you want to go back on cotton?

Mr. LIPSCOMB. Enough to live on and pay taxes.

The CHAIRMAN. A lot of people didn't go in to peaches and it might be a good thing they didn't.

Mr. LIPSCOMB. If they give me in proportion to what they gave my neighbor, I would be satisfied.

The CHAIRMAN. Your neighbor stuck to cotton?

Mr. LIPSCOMB. I judge he did. He said he had 165 acres of land and got 40 acres of cotton.

The CHAIRMAN. You might have 45 or more if you stuck to cotton. You went into peaches and now you want to go back to cotton. If anybody loses to give you something it will be those who stayed in the business. That is why we put that on a historical basis.

Mr. LIPSCOMB. If that is so, how am I going to pay my taxes?
The CHAIRMAN. You might have to plant more peaches.

Mr. LIPSCOMB. The frost gets them.

The CHAIRMAN. You took that chance.

Mr. LIPSCOMB. I understand.

The CHAIRMAN. It is difficult to penalize one who stayed with it to give it to you.

Mr. LIPSCOMB. Cotton was so cheap then we couldn't pay expenses. I did make some money out of peaches for a few years.

The CHAIRMAN. You were lucky.

Senator JOHNSTON. I know your condition. I did the same thing. I went into peaches instead of growing cotton and I can't get into cotton. That is the law.

Mr. LIPSCOMB. What gets me is they got nerve enough to say a man can plant five-tenths of an acre on 200 acres. I would like to know about that. He can't even plant a half acre. But they got nerve enough to it is a good thing they didn't look him in the face to give it to him. A man who is any man would knock him down.

The CHAIRMAN. I wish we could find someway to do it but we would have to take it away from people who stuck by cotton and who lost while you were making money on your peaches.

Mr. LIPSCOMB. I asked this man at the courthouse why is it that we were losing and he said when we went down here he would send to California. Why do we send our cotton to California? Why don't we keep it here? I asked him who does that and he said Washington. If it was done you boys done it.

The CHAIRMAN. No. Now that you have raised the question I will tell you how it was done. You see, during the war the Government asked that everybody plant cotton and plant wheat and plant many things. They didn't ask them to plant peaches but asked them to plant these crops. What happened was that these States in the West planted cotton, went into the business. They continued to plant cotton and formed a basis for future allotments. That is what happened. You would have your allotment, everybody in South Carolina would have their allotment if only they had stuck to cotton.

Mr. LIPSCOMB. What are we going to do? Several million bales of surplus.

The CHAIRMAN. That is not the point. I am telling you why you lost your cotton.

Mr. LIPSCOMB. Tell me what I am going to live from. If you can do that, I would like to know.

The CHAIRMAN. You might have some oil under your ground. I wouldn't know, sir, but it may be possible that we can devise someway by which new growers will get some acreage, but certainly not in proportion to the amount of land they have because if we did that we would have to take it from those who have worked on cotton, planted it and maybe lost quite a bit in sticking to the production of cotton. That is the problem.

Mr. LIPSCOMB. If he had been losing on it he would have been ready to quit and let some other man have some of it.

The CHAIRMAN. Anything else?

Mr. LIPSCOMB. No, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you.

Mr. Manning? Give your full name and your occupation.

STATEMENT OF HOUSTON MANNING, LATTA, S. C.

Mr. MANNING. I am Houston Manning, Latta, S. C.

The CHAIRMAN. I notice you have a prepared statement. We will put that into the record.

Mr. MANNING. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen, I am 62 years old, and have been farming all my life. I am only familiar with the problems facing tobacco and cotton farmers. I would not attempt to

suggest anyway on earth you could help the food crops because they are not imperishable like cotton and tobacco.

Cotton and tobacco are the two most imperishable crops we have and therefore can be considered separately from these other crops. As far as the tobacco program, I don't know one thing I could say to improve it except leave it like it is and cut the production where you can sustain the price at approximately where it is.

The CHAIRMAN. Let me ask you this in connection with tobacco. I don't believe that any effort is going to be made to change the support price. It is in the law now and I don't think you need be disturbed in that regard, but there is a move on to make farmers, try to make farmers grow better qualities.

Mr. MANNING. The price demands that. The price of good tobacco ranges from 70 cents down to 15 and if you go into 15-cents tobacco you will be out of business.

The CHAIRMAN. You mean from the same stalk?

Mr. MANNING. Absolutely. You need not do one thing if you want to help and that is a particular ax he has to grind.

The CHAIRMAN. I would like to put this in the record. Do you mean to say that I can plant an acre of tobacco next to you planting another acre of the same kind, that there will be a difference of as much as 15 cents and you might get as much as

Mr. MANNING. Off the same stalk every year there is a difference, the low grade brings about 13 cents support price and it ranges to 71 cents support.

The CHAIRMAN. What gives the better grade, time of picking? Mr. MANNING. The better grade is second and third and fourth cropping. The first is the priming. It is good but second, third and fourth is better, toward the top.

The CHAIRMAN. Why don't all do the same? Is it because they don't pick it right or at the same time, or be short of labor?

Some

Mr. MANNING. The weather will affect the stalk some time. times you gather it and it is 50 or 60 cents a pound and the rain can make it 15 cents a pound from there.

Senator JOHNSTON. The leaf grows bigger and sells for more midway up the stalk.

Mr. MANNING. It depends on each individual crop. One crop will be good from top to bottom.

The CHAIRMAN. What does it?

Mr. MANNING. I planted 6012 acres of tobacco this year.

The CHAIRMAN. How many?

Mr. MANNING. Sixty. The lowest man on my farm made $480 an acre. The highest man made $1,100 an acre.

The CHAIRMAN. I don't like to see that in the record.

Mr. MANNING. I am just telling you. But don't get the impression

The CHAIRMAN. You will get people in the tobacco business.

Mr. MANNING. Don't get the impression tobacco makes $1,100. I have never sold an acre of tobacco for a thousand dollars before this year. We had a new type that made mighty good.

The CHAIRMAN. Just for the record, now, is this new type different from what your neighbor planted?

Mr. MANNING. Well, some of my neighbors planted it but not so many, and the companies are kicking on the tobacco saying it is not a lasting quality and are liable to cut it out.

The CHAIRMAN. Then there is a method by which you can improve quality?

Mr. MANNING. Surely you can improve quality by farming. One farmer makes good and one poor tobacco.

The CHAIRMAN. It is not entirely dependent on the seed you plant? Mr. MANNING. Most quality tobacco is made with the proper amount of sunshine and rain.

The CHAIRMAN. The reason I am asking these questions is to get it in the record. I may understand it because I could talk to some tobacco farmers here, but the question may come up to revise the law so as to encourage better quality tobacco. Now how would you do that? Mr. MANNING. There is no way in the world you can legislate better quality tobacco, no way on earth you can effect it. Because every man makes the best tobacco he can off that crop. You can with cotton and stuff.

The CHAIRMAN. You said you had quality, it was a variety.

Mr. MANNING. A new variety made more pounds. Not quality.
The CHAIRMAN. That makes a difference.

Mr. MANNING. It is pounds, more pounds of the same quality.
Senator JOHNSTON. Did you plant Čokers 139?

Mr. MANNING. Yes, sir.

Senator JOHNSTON. Most of them made more pounds per acre with that.

Mr. MANNING. It made more pounds per acre this year.

The CHAIRMAN. What about quality?

Mr. MANNING. Good quality. They say the keeping qualities may not be so good. The companies are figuring on not buying it because they say it produces worms in it in storage.

The CHAIRMAN. I wouldn't blame them for not buying it because let me tell you something: If farmers will plant just to produce and make a thing that the trade won't take, I don't blame the trade for not taking it.

Mr. MANNING. They buy tobacco by the grade. They don't care if you have 10 million pounds they will buy it or if you have only a hundred thousand they will buy it.

The CHAIRMAN. That is a great trouble we have with the wheat producer in the northwest.

Mr. MANNING. Tobacco averages about 750 to 800 pounds an acre. But those

Mr. MANNING. Average price per acre.

The CHAIRMAN. Gross?

Mr. MANNING. Gross, yes. The profit in tobacco is not so much as you might think. I would say $1.50 a pound. Any farmer in the land should be satisfied that the tobacco program be let alone, you can't legislate quality tobacco any more than you can legislate quality of religion in Washington. The companies regulate that. We have from 13 cents to 71 cents a pound. I sold tobacco this year for 75 cents a pound.

The CHAIRMAN. It is all supported at 90. I want to make it so the Government won't have to buy that tobacco. I want the dealers to buy it.

Mr. MANNING. If the Government hadn't bought it we would have got $200 or $150 an acre.

The CHAIRMAN. So as a tobacco grower then it is your view that Congress could not do anything that would make it so that the Government will not have to take some of this inferior tobacco and hold it under loan?

Mr. MANNING. I can't imagine any way in the world you could do it. I have been producing it 40 years.

The CHAIRMAN. All right.

Mr. MANNING. I wouldn't change the tobacco program one iota except I would cut the production, I would grow with the Government, the Secretary of Agriculture, and the manufacturers; you have to deal with them, all the rest have to march to the music; 4 or 5 companies make all tobacco products in America, comparatively so. Get them to agree what they will use each year and cut your acreage to produce as near to that as you can every year regardless of whether the farmers want to or not.

The CHAIRMAN. As I remember, during this session of Congress there were 5 or 6 laws we passed further curtailing the amount of acres to be allotted to the small farmer. I think it is down to seven-tenths of an acre.

Mr. MANNING. I don't know the minimum. About half an acre. The CHAIRMAN. As I recall, that was done because of the fact that on hand today we have a 32-year supply of tobacco.

Mr. MANNING. You have got to have over a 2-year supply to keep it aged.

The CHAIRMAN. But not 312?

Mr. MANNING. That is right.

The CHAIRMAN. Proceed.

Mr. MANNING. You have to have 2 years' supply to age it.

I am going to digress a bit on account of the question you asked. I want to say that I have been a very proud man all my life and am no part of Communist or Socialist. A man informed me the other day I could get $1,500 to $1,600 soil conservation. That has been in force for 10 years. I never have qualified for one dime of it and didn't ever want itbut 4 years ago I had 1,500 acres of land paid for and today I got $30,000 in mortgages on it. Now I am not saying that it is because of prices of goods, but because of the weather I haven't been able to make one dime in 4 years.

I put $70,000 cash outlay every year besides all my land and 25 or 30 tenants, used to be 50, in the mule day, my work and all the farming implements. I haven't made $5 in 4 years.

Now, that is not due to prices of products, it is due to rain and sunshine. The weather has cut me over $60,000 a year income annuallythe weather. I am bringing this out to show you that farmers cannot plan a certain production in pounds, in bales, and maintain it because it depends on the weather sent by the Lord. Farming is the most hazardous business in the world.

Usually I make good money on the farm. I have as fine land as there is in South Carolina. My father ahead of me was a large planter. I lost that prosperity the last 4 years.

The CHAIRMAN. That was due to weather.

Mr. MANNING. Four years of bad wether capped last year by hurricane Hazel. Hazel cost me 12 to 14 thousands dollars in buildings last

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