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(Mr. Pope's prepared statement follows:)

Farmers worksheet for 8 acres of tobacco
Fixing plant beds, 15 days at 75 cents per hour---
Breaking land, harrowing, running rows, sowing first-
Tending crop, spraying, and suckering-
Housing crop, 8 men, 6 days apiece, at $1 per hour.
Barn help, 18 hands, 6 days apiece, at 50 cents per hour.
Curing, 12 barns, 3 days to barn, 36 days at $1 per hour.
Mules for trucking and others--
Oil, tenant's half for curing--
Cars and gas for hauling hands to and from work.
Work of tenant's tractor, gas to run same-
Grading, 8,000 pounds tobacco at 4 cents per pound.
2 cents per pound for hauling tenant's 2,000 pounds to market_

$112. 50 175. 00 150.00 480.00 540. 00 360.00

75. 00 180.00

50. 00 200.00 320.00 40. 00

Tenant's half of 8,000 poun

4,000 pounds at 50 cents_

2, 682. 00 2, 000.00

Tenant labor, wife, and children..

682. 00 682. 00

0, 000. 000 Franklin D. Roosevelt declared the farmer cannot add his labor into parity prices. Now take the tenant labor and that of his wife and children out of the above whch amounts to $682, and he will find he has worked all the years for nothing. This is slavery pure and simple on a grand scale, contrary to the Constitution of the United States.

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Raynor, please. Give your name and occupation.


Mr. RAYNOR. J. E. Raynor, Cumberland County. I am a farmer. I cultivate around 250 acres of farmland this year and have 71/2 acres in tobacco, 47 in cotton. I operate a cotton gin, I sell fertilizer, have 110 customers.

This is Carver's Creek Township No. 1. I am speaking for them. We have discussed pro and con this tobacco situation. My people are satisfied with the farm program. My people are satisfied with the parity. They are satisfied with everything but all these little fellows in our neighborhood I am told by ACI office that the average is 2 acres per farm. They are very much dissatisfied.

The CHAIRMAN. You want to enlarge acreage?

Mr. RAYNOR. Yes; they don't want to be cut. If you cut these farmers 25 percent they will have to borrow acres from some other county.

The CHAIRMAN. Is that in tobacco?
Mr. RAYNOR. Yes, sir. We don't have any cotton to talk about.

The CHAIRMAN. You know you have, the record shows you have a supply of tobacco for 31/2 years with the acres you are now planting. Where would you get the acres to increase that?

Mr. RAYNOR. I didn't say increase it. I wouldn't suggest any increase. It needs to be reduced. But I don't see how you are going to reduce it 25 percent. These little farmers, I predict that they will vote against this program before they will accept a 25-percent cut.

The CHAIRMAN. I am inclined to agree. "As Mr. Cooley stated, it is possible to make a gradual reduction and instead of doing it over 1

year, make it cover 2 or 3 or 4 or 5 years where if it is reduced it won't be much. You would be in favor of that?

Mr. RAYNOR. Yes. I have the problem figured out in my mind that I would like to discuss with you. I feel like that people who have 2 percent or less cultivated land in tobacco should not have it reduced. They are not able to stand it.

Mr. COOLEY. With 12-percent reduction which the Secretary has already ordered, I was just told today that the average allotment in North Carolina for tobacco growers would be slightly more than 4 acres a person, 4.15.

Mr. RAYNOR. When you drop it down

Mr. COOLEY. If you have a 2-acre minimum allotment you see what is going to happen to the program.

Mr. RAYNOR. That is true. They are going to kill it if they can't get nothing.

Mr. COOLEY. The tenant farmers would be out of luck almost entirely.

Mr. RAYNOR. These big farmers are going to be out of luck, too.

Mr. COOLEY. We do not have any big tobacco farmers. A man cannot be a big tobacco farmer. No one man can operate a big tobacco farm.

Mr. RAYNOR. A 1-horse cropman in our county is tending 7 and 8 acres.

Mr. COOLEY. They have many tenants.
Mr. RAYNOR. Where will they go?
Mr. COOLEY. On the highway.

Mr. RAYNOR. I have tenants I can't give an acre of tobacco. I am not satisfied to see that man cut again when he doesn't have anything to start with.

Mr. COOLEY. If we do not cut the little man you will not have anything.

Mr. RAYNOR. I don't want it if I have to gouge it out of my fellow


Mr. Cooley. It is not a question of gouging. You have to let your tenants go.

Mr. RAYNOR. Where is he going? That is the problem we try to keep from. Nowhere for him to go. We have to put more on the farm.

Mr. Cooley. If you have a minimum acreage you are going to wreck the program.

Mr. RAYNOR. I am in favor of doing something for the little man that can't help himself. They are not here today.

Mr. COOLEY. I am sitting here representing them, and so is Senator Scott.

The CHAIRMAN. Why isn't he here today?

Mr. RAYNOR. They are not able to come and they are not interested in the program enough because they don't get enough out of it to interest them. With these fellows from Greene County and Wayne County and Sampson County, every one has been here. This house was full of those people with big tobacco allotments.

Mr. COOLEY. They may have had big allotments but it is all cultivated with tenants.

Mr. RAYNOR. But giving 7 and 8 acres to the tenants. I can't give them 1. I want to see these little fellows taken care of. I believe if you let that little man pass, cut the big man down to where he can feel it, I say 30 percent of his cultivated land in tobacco. Mr. COOLEY. What is your total acreage? Mr. RAYNOR. Allotment? 7.8. Mr. COOLEY. What county?

Mr. RAYNOR. Cumberland County. I am satisfied with what I have. But I am here in the interest of the man who can't help himself.

Mr. COOLEY. That is what Senator Ellender is here for.
The CHAIRMAN. That is why I came today.

Mr. RAYNOR. You have done a fine job. You want the solution to it. You are puzzled. I am, too, but I do believe if we will cut the other fellows down some, maybe 10 percent, you can let these little fellows alone. If you cut him 20 percent he won't have anything, he can't operate.

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you.
Mr. STANLEY. Give your name and your occupation.

STATEMENT OF J. C. STANLEY, JR., CARTHAGE, N. C. Mr. STANLEY. I am J. C. Stanley, Jr., Moore County, N. C. I am a farmer. I have also been assistant agriculture teacher on veteran farm training, and supervisor the past 8 years. You have had a lot of discussion here today on the small farmer. So I think I will skip this preliminary on small farmers first and speak on the soil bank. I am very much interested in it. We are trying to get out of the problem we are in of the surplus commodities that we have on hand. At the same time we want to maintain these small farmers throughout our State.

If by Government help we take these acres, converted acres or acres we need to take out of these commodity crops that are overproduction, I would say go into soil conservation, use their service to the extent of building a soil bank that we can rely on in the future years.

The CHAIRMAN. We have heard a lot of testimony on that. Would you want to compensate farmers for the land set aside! How would you reach a figure ?

Mr. STANLEY. I would say a period of, set a goal, have goals to work to. I have learned that in this program with the veterans I have worked with. Set up a goal of 5 to 10 years, take these idle acres and pay them on a percentage basis or maybe 6-percent interest, as one man spoke of.

The CHAIRMAN. On the value of the land?
The CHAIRMAN. Market value.

Mr. STANLEY. Or set up a price, value on an acre basis of that particular crop. What it would be in the case of tobacco; we all know that is the largest income of any commodity we grow.

The CHAIRMAN. Would you make it on the basis of value of that acre or what the acre produces?

Mr. STANLEY. On the net income, I should say.
The CHAIRMAN. We just heard a moment ago where it was zero.

Mr. STANLEY. According to my figures in my, particular county, I don't know what the flue-cured average is for this year, it will be up some, but on the 1,400-pound basis to use round figures and using 50 cents average per pound, that is $700 an acre. Using Federal crop service basic figures they used to cost $300 per acre expense to grow tobacco. We get that on actual expense in tobacco. Take this $300 an acre from your $700, it leaves $400 an acre net income for labor and capital investment.

The CHAIRMAN. You would want the man who sets that acre aside to get the Government to pay him $400 an acre?

Mr. STANLEY. No; a percentage on interest on this commodity.
The CHAIRMAN. Six percent, $24.
Mr. STANLEY. Six percent or 10 percent.
The CHAIRMAN. You would put a percentage on his income?
The CHAIRMAN. Not on value of land ?

Mr. STANLEY. That is right, provided he would take this money and use it in soil-building practices set up by ASC.

Mr. COOLEY. Do you think anybody in North Carolina would rent an acre of tobacco to the Government for $24? Certainly not. Nor $44, either.

Mr. STANLEY. I am speaking of the acres in excess.
Mr. COOLEY. I know, but they wouldn't be interested in renting it.

Mr. STANLEY. I didn't say 6 percent. I just used that for a figure. You might give 25 percent or 50 percent where it would be less on corn or cotton.

The CHAIRMAN. Any other suggestions?

Mr. STANLEY. On the food bank disposing of the food, if I understand it

The CHAIRMAN. What is that?
Mr. STANLEY. World food bank to get rid of these commodities.
Mr. COOLEY. We cannot give them away now.

Mr. STANLEY. I know we have had salesmen in foreign countries. I am a veteran of World War II, served in the southwest Pacific. I have a horror for those people. I know it is the same in Asia and in Europe and so on.

Mr. COOLEY. Did you know that we passed laws in Congress authorizing the Secretary to give the surplus away? All a nation has to do is show a need for it, send a boat in and pick it up and take it home and the Government pays storage, pays the transportation from the place of storage to shipside. We have had that in the law a long time.

Mr. STANLEY. Does the United States send someone to back this up, to see these people get it and know where it comes from? If you receive a gift from someone in a roundabout way

Mr. COOLEY. We wrote that into the law, too.

Mr. STANLEY. I wanted to make the suggestion. We are very much in favor of these small farmers and, as was said earlier, this soil bank for instance, if it was to be enacted that maybe would go further toward helping the little man instead of the lawyers, bankers, and what have you.

The CHAIRMAN. All right, sir, thank you.
Mr. Reid, please. Give your name and occupation.


Mr. REID. I am H. A. Reid, Elizabeth City, a farmer and that is my

sole occupation. I think I have a solution to the problem that won't cost the taxpayers anything.

The CHAIRMAN. Give it to us. I am anxious to hear it.

Mr. Reid. I believe that if we cut production, just take a certain percentage of the land out of production, completely out, and don't pay anything for it the farmer will receive plenty in return. He will see an increase in income to cover that loss that he takes.

The CHAIRMAN. Do you think he would do that voluntarily?
Mr. REID. No, sir.
The CHAIRMAN. You want to make him do it?
Mr. REID. As much as I hate to
The CHAIRMAN. You would make him do it?

Mr. REID. As much as I hate for the Government to run it, it won't happen just by voluntary means. I am not going to take it out because I don't think my neighbor will, but if we take a certain amount out of production, 10 or 15 percent, cut down these surpluses, the farmer will get more. I had rather farm 80 acres and make a profit than farm 100 acres and not make a profit. Of course, I realize there are problems in the Midwest and Far West where they don't farm land but every other year, but they know that the farms are set up to raise so many acres of wheat or oats or whatever they raise; instead of raising a thousand acres, let him raise 800.

Mr. COOLEY. We are doing it, now, just what you have been advocating. All these supported crops are controlled.

Mr. REID. Take them down some more.

The CHAIRMAN. That is what we are trying to do, but you will never do it on a voluntary basis and in order to have it down you have to give some kind of incentive, put a little honey under the beehive to get the rest to come to it.

Mr. REID. I would rather farm 80 acres and make a profit than farm a hundred and not make a profit.

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you.
Mr. Ferbee, give your name and occupation, please.


Mr. FERBEE. I would like to say my bit about the soil-fertility bank. I have heard surpluses, been to several meetings, and one program runs into another. I have made up my mind the only way to cut our surplus down is with the soil-fertility bank. Take a certain number of acres out of production and set it aside. I would do it on a sliding scale. A man running a little farm I wouldn't take, I would take a smaller percentage from him than a big man. I would range from a man with 20 or 30 years, take a little more from a man with 200 acres, a man with 500 take 15 percent.

The CHAIRMAN. We have had that submitted to us today and all through these hearings, just what you are talking about there.

Mr. FERBEE. I would put a little honey in there. I think we do it more voluntarily if we compensate him for the land he takes out. I don't know much about finances to know how to pay him, but we would have to pay him to put these trees in if that was what he

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