Mr. ORTON. Let me simply state to this committee that there is nothing personal in this. It is not for some political purpose. It is not a political statement. I have great respect for the Chairman and for his work. I have great respect for the Chairman's opinions, as I would hope the Chairman and the committee would have for mine. Let me say that this is not simply an unknowledgeable attack on this legislation. I and my staff have spent hundreds, hundreds of hours in researching this legislation, FLPMA, predecessors, in determining the legal analysis of the particular problems and issues raised by this legislation. In light of the comments of the Chairman, I would request that the Chairman and his staff actually read my statement in total and respond to me with inaccuracies of my legal interpretation of the statute. And, in fact, if my interpretation is inaccurate, I would be happy to appear before this committee and withdraw any of those comments. I believe that these comments, in fact, are accurate, are based on statute, are based on the Constitution. It is, indeed, based upon my interpretation of this particular legislation. It has nothing to do with a personal attack of the integrity or the honesty or the work that the Chairman or this committee has done. It is simply an analysis of the breadth of this particular piece of legislation, which I have very, very serious concerns about and the impact that it would have on the people that I represent in the State of Utah. And so that is the context in which I submit my comments. I apologize to the Chair that he takes umbrage at my analysis of the legislation. But it is my honest analysis and is not meant to offend. So I thank the Chairman and the committee for the opportunity of being here. Mr. VENTO. The gentleman from Oregon, Mr. DeFazio, who I thank for opening up the hearing; does the gentleman have any questions for Mr. Orton? Mr. DEFAZIO. No. Mr. VENTO. Others? Mr. LaRocco. Mr. LAROCCO. I don't have any questions. I just want to welcome the Secretary of State of the great State of Idaho, Mr. Chairman. Mr. VENTO. And I would say before I dismiss Mr. Orton this morning, that the gentleman is entitled to his own opinions. You are not entitled to your own facts. And when you represent as facts various elements in this bill which, in essence, are your opinions or interpretations of what is intended or the consequence, that is why I take umbrage. I understand that your interpretations are your own. That is fine. But I would say that I try to balance them based on what I know in terms of writing this and having worked on this for a long time. I will read your statements. I will read your statements. And I will analyze your statements. And I understood what you said. And I think you ought to read your own statements and look at your own record here this morning in terms of what you said. As Mr. DeFazio said in opening the meeting-and I appreciate, again, his willingness to do it-Mr. Baca, who has recently been confirmed, is in the Senate to deal with appropriations. So I want to move to the list of witnesses that we have and perhaps interrupt at the end of a panel to ask for the participation of the new director of the BLM, Mr. Baca. PANEL CONSISTING OF PETE T. CENARRUSA, SECRETARY OF STATE, STATE OF IDAHO; BARBARA HJELLE, UTAH ASSOCIATION OF COUNTIES; DAVID J. SIMON, NATIONAL PARKS AND CONSERVATION ASSOCIATION; AND CYNTHIA SHOGAN, SOUTHERN UTAH WILDERNESS ALLIANCE Mr. VENTO. We are pleased to welcome the Honorable Pete Cenarrusa, the Secretary of State of the State of Idaho; Mrs. Barbara Hjelle, Utah Association of Counties; David Simon, National Parks and Conservation Association; and Cynthia Shogan, Southern Utah Wilderness Alliance. Thank you for your patience this morning. Your complete statements will be made a part of the record. I will ask each of you to conclude your statements in five minutes. I know that all of your statements are important, but the Members and I do personally read over statements afterwards to try to analyze them for the impact. I guess Mr. LaRocco has already welcomed his Secretary of State from the State of Idaho. Does the gentleman want to say anything further? Mr. LAROCCO. Mr. Chairman, I do want to acknowledge Pete Cenarrusa, a long-standing public servant in the State of Idaho and a great Secretary of State and a friend of mine. I welcome him here, and I have read his testimony, and I think it would be enlightening to the committee. Pete, welcome to the Natural Resources Committee. It is good to see you here in Washington, DC. Thank you for that, Mr. Chairman. And I have a unanimous consent request that I will make at the proper time. Mr. SMITH. Will the gentleman yield to me? Mr. LAROCco. Yes. Mr. SMITH. I would like to welcome Mr. Cenarrusa. I had the privilege of eating in his son's restaurants many times, both in Oregon and in Idaho. And although Mr. Cenarrusa and I have never met, I have been a long admirer of him and his work in Idaho, and I am delighted to see him. And I will tell John that you are in good shape. Mr. LAROCCO. Reclaiming my time. I think when we were out for the Birds of Prey legislation, we took the Chairman to Onate to enjoy good Basque food. And I fell in love with a Basque woman, and the rest is history. The Basque people have a proud heritage in Idaho, the largest population of Basques outside the Basque region in Spain. Mr. VENTO. I thank the gentleman for his hospitality and Mr. Cenarrusa for his recipes and the food. I very much enjoyed that experience in Idaho as well as others on that visit. Why don't you proceed with your statement, Mr. Cenarrusa, please, for 5 minutes. Thanks. STATEMENT OF PETE T. CENARRUSA Mr. CENARRUSA. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Congressman LaRocco. I am in the sheep business, and my son told me that the only way to sell lamb is by the plate; so he went into the restaurant business. Mr. Chairman and Members of the Committee on National Parks, Forests and Public Lands, thank you for the opportunity to make this presentation with respect to H.R. 1603. My remarks will pertain to R.S. 2477 rights-of-way. The State of Idaho recognizes that existing Federal lands rights of way are extremely important to all citizens of Idaho. In addition, as a member of the State Board of Land Commissioners, I can say that it is important to the State of Idaho and to the schoolchildren of the State of Idaho to comply with the State constitution which provides a mandate to acquire the maximum amount of financial gain for the public school endowment and other institutional endowments. Therefore, it is important that State lands have public access in the case of land-locked, isolated parcels of State lands. Two-thirds of Idaho's land is under the control of the Federal Government, and access to such Federal lands is integral to public use. The Idaho Department of Lands manages over two and a half million acres of surface ownership of State trust lands with the State of Idaho. Much of the State ownership is now, or has been, intermingled with Federal lands. Primary uses of the land include livestock grazing, timber harvesting, mining, and recreational activities. State lands are open to the public for general recreational uses. The State of Idaho sells endowment lands from time to time, and without access, they have very little value. Obviously, access to State trust lands is of primary importance to the State and other lessees and prospective buyers. R.S. 2477 rights-of-way are an important and valid method of securing that access in some cases. Federal actions regarding R.S. 2477 can have a significant impact regarding management of the State lands and their resources. We urge the Congress to take no action that would limit the State, their lessees, or the public's opportunity to access the State lands. We request that we be heard regarding any legislation which may diminish the management of State lands for the purposes that they were intended. The Idaho legislature recognizing the necessity for establishing a procedure for identifying lands confirming the existence of previously established Federal rights-of-way, to protect those rights previously granted to and vested in the citizens of Idaho. My principal concern with H.R. 1603 is that it sunsets filing for R.S. 2477 rights-of-way on January 1, 1991. This doesn't give the people of Idaho enough time in which to make such filings. Many of our roads are still snow-covered and not visible. A group of citizens representing the State of Idaho legislature, the Blue Ribbon Coalition, an advocate of public access roads and natural resource development and conservation, the Farm Bureau, natural resources representatives, Grassroots for Multiple Use, and my office have filed for the record an amended version of H.R. 1603 marked Exhibit Number 1. We hope that your committee will favorably consider the amended version. But foremost, we favor states' administration by State law. The 52nd session of the Idaho legislature enacted House Bill 388 into law March 25, 1993, signed by Governor Cecil Andrus. The past legislature passed legislation and approved a memorial to Congress which I have submitted for the record. House Bill 388 is marked Exhibit Number 2, and House Joint Memorial is Exhibit Number 3. The statutory legislation defines Federal land rights-of-way within the context of Revised Statute 2477. The statutory language speaks of the method of abandonment of such roads or rights-ofway. New State law also spells out the method of recordation and acknowledgment of R.S. 2477 roads within the State of Idaho. Since the issue is primarily one of States' rights, the Idaho legislature urges Congress to recognize the legislation as such in House Bill 388 passed by the 52nd Idaho Legislature. Therefore, we in Idaho prefer States' rights with respect to roads and rights-of-way administered by State law rather than congressional legislation as proposed in H.R. 1603. I have submitted for the record more detailed testimony. I thank you very much for this opportunity to appear before this august subcommittee of the 103d Congress. Thank you. Mr. VENTO. Thank you Mr. Cenarrusa and we will get back with a question or two in a minute. [Prepared statement of Mr. Cenarrusa follows:] TESTIMONY BEFORE THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES NATIONAL PARKS, FORESTS AND PUBLIC LANDS BY PETE T. CENARRUSA STATE CAPITOL BOISE, IDAHO MAY 18, 1993 Mr. Chairman and member of the Committee on National Parks Forest and Public Lands. Thank you for the opportunity to make this presentation with respect to H.R. 1603. The State of Idaho recognizes that existing federal land rights of way are extremely important to all of Idaho's citizens. In addition as a member of the State Board of Land Commissioners, I can say that it is important to the State of Idaho and to the school children of the State of Idaho to comply with the State Constitution which provides a mandate to acquire the maximum amount of financial gain for the public school endowment and other institutional endowments. Therefore it is important that State lands have public access in the case of land locked isolated parcels of State lands. Two-thirds of Idaho's land is under control of the federal government and access to such federal lands is integral to public use. |