NORTH VIETNAM FIGHTING ACTIVITIES

Today the North Vietnamese are fighting in five places. They are fighting here in Southern Laos, they are fighting here in Northern Laos, they are fighting here in Cambodia west of the Mekong; they are fighting heavily against the South Vietnamese in what we call the Chup Plantation area, and they are continuing to conduct guerrillatype warfare inside South Vietnam.

The point is obvious that they are spread very thin on a wide front, and this will cause a degrading of their overall capability, particularly in the logistics field. We are confident the current operation Lamson 719 will have a very serious impact on their capability in the future to mount "main force operations," and, hence, we expect the overall impact of the operation to facilitate Vietnamization and our withdrawal program.

I think when you read accounts of this operation, it is quite easy to see how people would be quite disturbed, because no one has shown a TV picture of an interview with a North Vietnamese, as to how they are making out. In other words, the other side of the picture doesn't get into focus at all.

But I assure you that they are taking some very severe punishment, if not the most severe punishment they have taken since this war started. For the first time they have chosen to concentrate at a level which we have not observed before.

ANTICIPATED SOUTH VIETNAM TACTICS

We have laid on very heavy air attacks-B-52's, tactical air, and the heligunship variety. Whenever a target shows itself in this general area, it gets hit. I think what will happen is that the South Vietnamese will continue to consolidate their position in here [indicating], on both sides of the border.

As you know, we are using Khesanh, which is right here [indicating] as the prime logistics base to support these operations. We have blocking positions up in here to stop any move from the northwest. I think there is another

Chairman ELLENDER. Those are mostly Americans, aren't they? Admiral MOORER. The green shows the South Vietnamese and the blue are Americans.

I think there is another point that should be made here.

That is that we have some evidence that the North Vietnamese were preparing a large-scale move into Military Region I, and now it is doubtful that they will be able to conduct such operations on a large scale, as a result of what has happened here.

Also, I think it is significant that their very key units, those three divisions I mentioned the 304th, 308th, and 320th-have been very severely damaged. The fighting is not over. There is going to be more fighting. But the South Vietnamese are staying in there.

OPERATION EVALUATION

Secretary Laird and I have said many times when this operation started that we did not expect the South Vietnamese to win every

battle. This is especially true in view of the fact that this is their first time. One just doesn't win every battle anyway. But I think you must measure the operation in terms of its overall impact on the situation in Southeast Asia, not by the result of some isolated tactical event which might attract your attention at the moment.

Looking at it in that context, we feel it is going to have a significant beneficial impact, although it will take some time to really analyze what has happened, just as the Cambodia operation last May and June. Yet there is no question about the fact that the North Vietnamese have been hurt heavily. At the same time you can't expect the South Vietnamese to get into a fight of this tempo and not have some major losses and some difficulties themselves.

SOUTH VIETNAM TROOPS AND LOSSES: B-52 AND TACTICAL AIR STRIKES

Chairman ELLENDER. How many were engaged on both sides i the area?

Admiral MOORER. The South Vietnamese actually put into the are about 17,000, Mr. Chairman.

Chairman ELLENDER. How many North Vietnamese were engaged Admiral MOORER. The North Vietnamese put in about 30,000 an they lost over a third. That is the estimate. I should go on to sa that there have been some 375, what we call B-52 boxes; that is, area where the B-52's have conducted strikes. And we have only had troop in about 67 or 70 of them. In other words, we haven't been able t on the ground, assess the result of these strikes.

You have somewhere between 250 and 300 B-52 strikes that hav been put down in this general area where we know they have bee damaged; but we don't know how much because we haven't been there. The same thing goes for some of the tactical air. I should poi out also that as a result of the interdiction that we have been co ducting on this entire area since October 1, it is estimated that th North Vietnamese have lost about 8,000 trucks. Some of these truck about half of them, are empty, going north, and half of them a going south.

SOUTH VIETNAM TROOPS AND LOSSES

Chairman ELLENDER. What were the losses on the South Vietname side?

Admiral MOORER. I was about to tell you about that, sir. They h 17,000 troops in there, about 30 maneuver battalions.

So far they are reporting somewhere between [deleted] losses. fact, they just went over the [deleted] mark a couple of days ago. I a sure that there will be more losses. There will be people die who we wounded and things of that kind. But our figures on the South Vi namese are that, just a little over [deleted] they reported so far.

FIRE SUPPORT BASE 30 BATTALION SERVICE: LOSSES AND DAMAGE INFLICTION

If you will recall, some time ago there was quite a bit written the press about fire support base 30. The battalion at that base did s fer heavy casualties, but at the same time it inflicted over 600 casualt on the enemy. We have photographs of the losses taken by aircra

The battalion at base 30 was lifted out, refitted, resupplied with personnel and material, but it went back in again and continued to fight. I think that is an example of the fact that the South Vietnamese do have the incentive and the morale necessary for them to conduct fighting of this scope even though there have been isolated cases where, as I said, the performance hasn't been as good as it may have been.

FOURTH BATTALION, 1ST DIVISION, SERVICE: LOSSES, CAPTURES, AND DAMAGE

INFLICTION

Down in this very hot area right here [indicating], one battalion, the 4th Battalion of the 1st Division, was continuously engaged for about 3 days. They were the battalion farthest deployed to the west. This battalion suffered heavy casualties, but they reported 1,200 North Vietnamese killed.

As some indication of the activity, they captured several hundred rifles. That is one indicator of the validity of enemy killed in action, that is, the number of the enemy's personal weapons that they manage to retrieve.

There is still heavy fighting going on, and it will continue, I think, for a few more days, at least, in this particular area and perhaps even longer in other areas. On balance, we feel it has been a beneficial operation and this will be clearly shown in the months ahead. Chairman ELLENDER. Senator Young.

LAST NORTH VIETNAM MAJOR OFFENSIVE AGAINST SOUTH VEITNAM: TET OFFENSIVE

Senator YOUNG. I recall during the Tet offensive the press had me pretty well convinced that we were taking a bad beating. But since then the North Vietnamese haven't launched a major offensive on the South Vietnamese. Is that true?

Admiral MOORER. That is correct, Senator. The North Vietnamese never publish their losses. As a matter of fact, this is one of the peculiar aspects of this war. [Deleted.]

TOTAL NORTH VIETNAM CASUALTIES

Senator YOUNG. According to the informatiton I get from some intelligence sources, the North Vietnamese have lost around 600,000. That would be equivalent to about 6 million in losses to us. Is that estimate somewhere near correct?

Admiral MOORER. Since they have been fighting?

Senator YOUNG. No; altogether, the North Vietnamese have lost around 600,000.

Admiral MOORER. Yes, sir; I have read numbers that are even higher than that. Of course, when dealing in figures like that, you have to be careful. Yet I would estimate that the number is fairly accurate.

Secretary LAIRD. They have acknowledged about 500,000 themselves, but that is their own acknowledgement. I think the evidence indicates that it is somewhat higher than their acknowledged casualty rate. Chairman ELLENDER. Does that include prisoners also? Secretary LAIRD. No; that is killed in action.