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Mr. WILSON. And that that would be mandatory?

Mr. SILCOX. Yes, exactly.

Mr. WHITTINGTON. The question of my colleague suggests to me that in Louisiana there is a department of agriculture, and also a department of conservation, that the word "conservation" is in the descriptive title of the executive department.

Mr. WILSON. Yes.

Mr. WHITTINGTON. And that includes fish down there, you know. Mr. WILSON. And game.

Mr. WHITTINGTON. If you care to make any enlargement upon that, I would be glad to have you do it, because it might be urged as a precedent here.

Mr. SILCOX. I would be glad to submit an additional statement giving an analysis of that.

Mr. WHITTINGTON. I move that we adjourn.

Mr. GASQUE. It has been moved that we adjourn. When shall we have the next meeting?

Mr. WHITTINGTON. I suggest that we adjourn subject to the call of the Chair, and meanwhile we will get the reports from the other departments.

Mr. GASQUE. Yes.

(Thereupon, at 12:25 p. m., the committee adjourned, subject to the call of the chairman.)

CHANGE THE NAME OF THE DEPARTMENT OF THE INTERIOR TO THE DEPARTMENT OF CONSERVATION AND WORKS

FRIDAY, JUNE 21, 1935

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES,

COMMITTEE ON EXPENDITURES IN THE EXECUTIVE DEPARTMENTS,

Washington, D. C.

The committee met at 10:30 o'clock a. m., Hon. Allard H. Gasque (acting chairman) presiding.

Mr. GASQUE. The committee will come to order. The reason we have not called a meeting earlier is to await reports from the various departments of the Government. We have now quite complete reports from the departments of their views on this bill, which will be placed in the record unless some one wishes to have them read now. Some are quite lengthy. We have them from the Navy, the Attorney General, Department of Labor, Department of Commerce, and the Secretary of the Interior, whom we have already heard, and at our last hearing Mr. Silcox, who was representing the Department of Agriculture. We have with us this morning the Secretary of Agriculture, Mr. Wallace, whom we will now hear.

Mr. MCKEOUGH. Have you read the letters from the different departments?

Mr. GASQUE. Yes.

Mr. MCKEOUGH. Do they indicate the opinions they have?

Mr. GASQUE. Most of them say it does not affect their departments and they have no objection. The War Department and the Navy Department have some little reservations that they would like to make with regard to the bill and I presume they will want to be heard on this bill before we report it.

(The letters referred to are as follows:)

Hon. ALLARD H. GASQUE,

Washington, D. C.

POST OFFICE DEPARTMENT,
Washington, June 4, 1935.

MY DEAR CONGRESSMAN: This will acknowledge receipt of yours of the 1st, relative to House of Representatives bill 7712.

Inasmuch as the bill relates to another Department of the Government, I do not deem it advisable that this Department render an opinion in the matter. Very truly yours,

Hon. ALLARD H. GASQUE,

JAMES A. FARLEY.

JUSTICE DEPARTMENT, Washington, D. C., June 4, 1935.

Vice Chairman Committee on Expenditures in the Executive Departments,
House of Representatives.

MY DEAR MR. CONGRESSMAN: I have your letter of June 1, requesting my views as to the merits of the bill (H. R. 7712), to change the name of the Department of the Interior and to coordinate certain governmental functions.

This bill proposes to change the name of the Department of the Interior to the Department of Conservation and Works. It further proposes to authorize the President to transfer to that Department by Executive order, the whole or any part of any governmental agency in the executive branch of the Government engaged in conserving natural resources or in carrying on public-works activities. As this measure does not relate to any function or duty of the Department of Justice, and as it involves questions of legislative policy, I prefer not to express any views as to its merits.

Sincerely yours,

HOMER CUMMINGS, Attorney General.

DEPARTMENT OF LABOR,
Washington, June 3, 1935.

Hon. ALLARD H. GASQUE,

House of Representatives, Washington, D. C.

MY DEAR MR. CongressmaN: I have the letter of the Committee on Expenditures in the Executive Departments dated June 1, 1935, in which is enclosed a bill now pending before your committee (H. R. 7712) entitled "A bill to change the name of the Department of the Interior and to coordinate certain governmental functions."

Briefly, the bill provides that the name of the Department of the Interior shall be changed to "The Department of Conservation and Works” and makes provisions for vesting all the statutory authority now in the Department of the Interior in this new department. The bill further provides that the President may by Executive order transfer to the new department any commission, independent establishment, board, bureau, division, service, or office engaged in conserving natural resources or in carrying on public works. Whenever such an order is promulgated, it would not become effective under this proposed act until 60 days after being transmitted to Congress, unless Congress otherwise provides. This bill on its face does not appear to affect the Department of Labor, for there is no division or bureau in this Department "engaged in conserving the natural resources or in carrying on public works activities in the United States." At present the only contact which the Department has with the construction of public works is in connection with labor relations. Under the Davis-Bacon Act (act of Mar. 3, 1931, c. 411, 46 Stat. 1494, U. S. C. title 40, sec. 276 (a)) the Secretary of Labor is called upon to determine the prevailing rate of wage to be paid on contracts for the construction of public buildings, and the recent Emergency Relief Appropriation act of 1935 (Public Res. 11, approved Apr. 8, 1935) contains a similar provision. Then, under Regulation 51 of the Federal Emergency Administration of Public Works, the Department, through its Wage Predetermination Board, notifies the Public Works Administrator of its findings whenever a question arises as to whether the prevailing rate established by collective agreement in the vicinity of a P. W. A. project is higher than the zone rate. One of the divisions of the United States Employment Service, which is known as the National Reemployment Service, furnishes lists of qualified laborers and mechanics from the registration cards on file in the various offices to contractors engaged in P. W. A. work.

It hardly seems that any of these activities come within the scope of the instant bill. The Department does not believe that the ambit of the bill should be widened so as to transfer these activities to another department, because the principal reason for centering these activities in the Department of Labor was the advantage to be derived from having an agency not connected with either the contracting officer or the contractor to deal with such matters as wage rates and employment. Moreover the Department of Labor, because of its Organic Act, appears to be the proper agency of the executive branch of the Government to deal with all matters of industrial relations, and this same consideration would apply to any boards which might be hereafter established by Congress to deal with labor relations on public works or natural-resource industries.

Very truly yours,

FRANCES PERKINS.

DEFARTMENT OF COMMERCE,

Hon. ALLARD H. GASQUE,

OFFICE OF THE SECRETARY,
Washington, D. C., June 3, 1935.

Vice Chairman Committee on Expenditures in the Executive Departments,

Washington, D. C.

MY DEAR MR. CHAIRMAN: In response to your request for the views of this Department on H. R. 7712, a bill to change the name of the Department of the Interior and to coordinate certain governmental functions, I have to report that insofar as this Department is concerned there does not appear to be any objection to the enactment of the proposed legislation.

Very truly yours,

SOUTH TRIMBLE, Jr., Acting Secretary of Commerce.

THE OFFICE OF THE SECRETARY OF THE INTERIOR,
Washington, D. C., May 11, 1935.

Hon. JOHN J. COCHRAN,
Chairman Committee on Expenditures in the

Executive Departments, House of Representative,

MY DEAR MR. CHAIRMAN: I am sending you herewith my report on H. R. 7712, in response to your letter of April 26. You also requested information as to whether the bill should be transmitted through the Bureau of the Budget. I do not believe this is necessary, inasmuch as no financial transactions are involved. So far as other departments are concerned, no agencies are proposed to be transferred by this bill, and therefore a discussion with other departments would seem to me to be unnecessary at this time. If the President exercises the authority delegated to him by the bill and proposes by Executive order the transfer of functions from other departments, the time would then be appropriate for holding hearings on the subject. I do not believe the name of the Department of the Interior is a matter of concern to the other executive departments. I would appreciate action on this bill by your committee at as early a date as practicable.

Sincerely yours,

Mr. E. J. COLLUM,

HAROLD L. ICKES,
Secretary of the Interior.

DEPARTMENT OF STATE,

Washington, D. C., June 4, 1935.

Clerk Committee on Expenditures in the Executive Departments,
House of Representatives, Washington, D. C.

MY DEAR MR. COLLUM: The receipt is acknowledged of your letter of June 1, 1935, requesting my views on H. R. 7712, which is a bill to change the name of the Department of the Interior and to coordinate certain governmental functions. As I read the proposed bill, it would not, if enacted, affect the work of the Department of State; and I do not, therefore, feel qualified to comment one way or another on the proposed legislation.

Sincerely yours,

Hon. ALLARD H. GASQUE,

CORDELL HULL.

WAR DEPARTMENT, Washington, D. C., June 10, 1935.

Vice Chairman Committee on Expenditures in the Executive Departments,
House of Representatives.

DEAR MR. GASQUE: Reference is made to your letter of June 1, 1935, asking for the views of the War Department on H. R. 7712, which proposes to change the name of the Interior Department to the Department of Conservation and Works and to grant to the President authority to transfer to this Department, within a 2-year period, any agency of another executive department, in whole or in part, engaged in carrying on public-works activities or in conserving the natural resources of the country. Transfers can be made only after the President has deter

mined by investigation that they "will reduce expenditures, increase efficiency, and coordinate the functions of the Department of Conservation and Works." The War Department questions whether the enactment of this bill would serve any useful purpose. The somewhat similar acts of 1932 and 1933, by which Congress delegated its powers to prescribe the administrative agencies and functions of the Government, presumably have given the President opportunity to make all such transfers which he deems advisable.

The bill now under consideration makes no distinction between public works of a civil nature and those of a military or national-defense character, and both classes would be transferable to the Department of Conservation and Works. Similarly the 1933 act permitted the transfer of any agencies having charge of public works; and although it might be inferred that public works of a military nature would not be considered for transfer, since no such action was taken during the 2-year period when this was possible under the act, it is believed that the instant bill should differentiate between the two classes of public works and eliminate those of a military nature for possible transfer from the War Department.

The War Department believes that it would be extremely inadvisable to transfer such construction as seacoast fortifications, Army barracks and quarters, hangars, etc., to an outside agency. The primary purpose of placing Army construction under the War Department was to provide a means of training Army personnel during peacetimes in the duties they would be called upon to perform in case of emergency. In war, military construction work would naturally be a function of the War Department to perform, and it follows that an organization in the Army should be trained and prepared to meet such an emergency.

The most important among the civil-construction activities of the Army are those of river and harbor improvements and flood control. These works have long been intrusted to the Corps of Engineers, and the record achieved has been an enviable one. It is the opinion of the War Department that the transfer of these duties to the proposed Department of Conservation and Works would be a grave mistake for the following reasons: (1) Past accomplishments have been most satisfactory; (2) engineering costs would be greatly increased, as the Corps of Engineers in the Army must be maintained in any event; (3) this work affords training to Army engineers on civil works in time of peace for the large construction duties that devolve upon them in time of war; (4) the Corps of Engineers can view problems of a controversial nature with a detachment not possible in a body which is, at least, partially political in character.

Consequently, the War Department cannot support the proposed bill. In case, however, the bill is to be acted upon favorably by your committee it is recommended that an amendment be made thereto which would permit all river and harbor improvements and flood control now under the Secretary of War, and all military, naval, and national-defense construction, improvement, installation, operation, and maintenance and repair of buildings, utilities, appurtenances thereto and accessories necessary for the shelter, protection, and accommodation of the Army and Navy and its personnel and property, which shall include fortifications, warships, barracks, quarters, warehouses, hangars, technical, and miscellaneous buildings, utilities and other facilities required exclusively for the use of the Military and Naval Establishments throughout the United States and its possessions to remain under the Secretary of War and under the Secretary of the Navy as now provided for by existing law.

It is also requested that, before any action is taken on this bill by your committee, the Chief of Engineers be called before the committee to give full information on the subject of his extensive and major construction operations.

Sincerely yours,

GEO. H. DERN, Secretary of War.

Hon. JOHN J. COCHRAN,

INTERIOR DEPARTMENT,
Washington, May 10 1935.

Chairman Committee on Expenditures in the Executive Departments,
House of Representatives.

MY DEAR MR. CHAIRMAN: I have received your letter of April 26, 1935, requesting a report on H. R. 7712, which would change the name of the Department of the Interior and authorize the President, subject to congressional review, to to transfer to it conservation and public-works agencies and from it unrelated activities.

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