The CHAIRMAN. It eliminates what they call the 3-year-certificate men. That I think is taken care of.

Mr. SIROVICH. Are you in favor of that?

Captain TOMB. Yes, sir; I am.

Mr. SIROVICH. That would help your school?

Captain TоMв. It will help the American boy and the Americans. Mr. SIROVICH. That is the purpose of the committee.

Captain TоMB. Another thing I wish to explain is the difficulty the American boys have in learning how to handle life boats. In these State marine academies we handle life boats at sea. For instance, every day at 1:15 regardless of the weather, unless it is foggy, raining, or blowing over "force 5", we have drill. A box is thrown overboard. Then they yell "man overboard." The cadets handle the ship under an officer, they lower the lifeboat, launch it, pick up the box and the buoy, and come back to the ship. In the meantime we are circling. They are getting that experience at sea, where it counts.

Mr. SIROVICH. How many boys do you have in your school?:
Captain TOMB. 160.

Mr. SIROVICH. What are the qualifications for admission?

Captain TомB. They must be high school graduates, they must be physically perfect-the same requirements as the Naval Academy except we do not have the substantiating examination.

Mr. SIROVICH. How long do they have to go to shcool to be en titled to be graduated?

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Captain TOMB. Two years, but we have one other item.

Mr. SIROVICH. Pardon me a moment. Do they have to pay for that instruction?

Captain TомB. Yes, sir.

Mr. SIROVICH. What is the cost of tuition?

Captain Tомв. $100 a year, plus $200 for their clothing, uniforms, and equipment.

Mr. SIROVICH. They get maintenance, training, and everything? Captain TоMB. Yes. We take boys from other States, but they have to pay $750. They pay $650 more per annum than the New York boy.

Mr. SIROVICH. Do you get any subsidy from the State?

Captain Tомв. The state appropriates about $90,000, and the Federal Government $25,000.

Mr. SIROVICH. How long has that institution been in existence? Captain Tомв. Since 1874. It was the first one.

Mr. SIROVICH. How many have you graduated during that period? Captain Tомв. We have developed about 1,600, all told.

Mr. SIROVICH. Have they manned all kinds of ships since then? Captain TOMB. Yes, sir. They made a wonderful record during the World War. The course is short, I must admit, because the modern steamer is very complex, just like a battleship.

Mr. SIROVICH. Apropos of that, we had several witnesses here yesterday that brought out something, and since you were not here I would like to suggest it to you: That is, the possibility of developing a department for radio training.

Captain Tомв. We have a signal instructor on board who has charge of instructing all the cadets in signalling, that is, the blinker, the semaphore, and the flag signals.

Mr. SIROVICH. How about radio?

Captain ToмB. And voluntarily, radio. Those who have time take up a little radio. The time is short, because from 6 o'clock in the morning until 10 o'clock at night every minute of the day is laid out on schedule, which they must meet. The discipline is strict, the Navy discipline.

Mr. SIROVICH. Where is that school situated?

Captain Toмв. We are now developing at Fort Schuyler. The T. E. R. A. is putting up a dock there. We have 20 acres at the eastern end. The T. E. R. A. is putting up a dock for us and removing the fort. We expect to move it at the next autumn. At present we are at the Navy Yard.

There is one point I want to bring out relative to our seaman requirements, the supervisory test. The purpose of that is to bring out the qualities of leadership, alertness, personality, judgment, and initiative, qualities that are essential at sea in a crisis. We grade the young men on that. We take the grades they make at high school in the regent's exams, and then take the average of the mental with the average of the adaptability and average them together, and take them off the top. We take one out of three.

Mr. SIROVICH. Do you find work for all of them when they graduate?

Captain Toмв. Yes, sir. But the system of employment in the merchant marine is something very difficult where you sign on for a cruise. We cannot sent the young man to sea immediately as third mate and third assistant engineer. That means they must be employed in subordinate capacities. When a ship completes a voyage everybody is discharged. They are then ready for the next voyage, that is, the men before the mast, up to a certain extent.

The CHAIRMAN. Do you not believe that it would help in maintaining permanency on the lines, that is, the same crews on the same lines, and getting your men on, if we had a central agency, say in Washington, with regional agencies throughout the country, whose special duty would be to look after seamen and protect them in their rights, and at the same time secure employment for them, particularly the best of them?

Captain TомB. I think it would be excellent. There is one thing about the continuous employment, however: In operating in competition with the foreigner the expense to the steamship owner would be great, and that is where subsidy comes in, to eliminate that defect resulting in an exorbitant charge against the steamship operation, so that the ship would have permanent employment instead of this casual employment.

The CHAIRMAN. Yes.

Captain Tомв. When the ship is in port they could go ahead with the emergency drills. They would learn the ship thoroughly instead of getting a few hours before the ship sails and not having a complete knowledge of the ship.

Mr. SIROVICH. The thought would be to engage the seamen and the officers for a year?

Captain TOMB. Take them on for a year, to cover that additional cost by subsidy, because the steamship operator cannot afford it. Mr. SIROVICH. With the right to discharge anyone if he is not fit? Captain TOMB. With the right to discharge at any time as in any other employment.

The CHAIRMAN. Of course, those are ultimate objectives that may not be accomplished at this time, but they are certain ends toward which we may work and can work with a subsidy that is very variable, as in this case; from time to time it may be either increased or lowered to meet varying conditions.

Captain Tомв. I think it will come through evolution and not revolution.

The CHAIRMAN. I think so, too.

Mr. HART. When the young men are graduated from your institu tion, are they what are known as "cadets"?

Captain Tомв. They graduate as "cadets", but they receive a license as third mate and third assistant engineer. That is what I wanted to bring out here about this cadet ship. Of the two types of cadets, one would be the graduate of the marine school. He is well qualified, he is a splendid seaman, he is a junior officer in every way except that he has not had the experience on a modern ship to qualify him fully to take the responsibility. We try to get around that by having every cadet in the first class take his trick as officer of the deck while at sea, and he carries on the routine under the supervision of a deck officer.

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Mr. SIROVICH. Would that term, then, apply to students that graduate from your school. The term that we have in this bill, 2 cadets on ships under 10,000 tons, and 3 cadets on ships over 10,000 tons?

Captain TOMB. Yes. But that $30 is very small for a graduate. Mr. SIROVICH. What do you think the proper sum would be? We would like to be enlightened.

Captain TOMв. $50; not under $50. I make it $50 for the first 6 months, and $60 for the next 6 months, because they are well worth it.

Mr. SIROVICH. For how long do we use them, 1 year?

Captain Tомв. One year only.

Mr. SIROVICH. That would give them the practical experience? Captain Toмв. That would give them the practical experience in authority as junior officers.

Mr. SIROVICH. That is like serving as an interne in a hospital until you finish your medical training?

Captain TOMв. Absolutely.

Mr. O'LEARY. Or like an ensign in the Navy?

Captain TOMв. An ensign as a graduate of the Naval Academy receives his commission immediately upon graduation, but it is a year before he is allowed responsibility. He is in the junior-officer capacity. It is the same at West Point. The graduate of West Point, even the honor man, must serve in a subordinate capacity. But they have their commissions, and with some little experience are able to work up. Our chaps should hold those licenses just the same, but they should be assured of this cadet employment until the end of the year, and by that time they have made their reputation. Now it is very difficult. There is so much unemployment that it is extremely difficult to take care of them.

Mr. HART. Are candidates for admission to your school selected in any way? I do not mean those who are accepted, but those who are permitted to take the examinations.

Captain Tомв. We require the family physician to give a physical examination to the young man, because he must be physically perfect

like at the Naval Academy. He must be eligible for the Naval Reserve. If we graduate a young man and he is not eligible for the Naval Reserve ne is liable to be out of employment and his time is wasted. But he is eligible for the Naval Reserve. We accept the applications from all young men in New York who meet our requirements.

Mr. HART. That is, who have been graduated from high school? Captain Tомв. They must be graduated, and they must be physically perfect, and they must have this adaptability test which is taken about three weeks before the entering class.

Mr. SIROVICH. Their ages are between 17 and 21?

Captain Tомв. They must be over 17 and under 21.

Mr. O'LEARY. A differential treatment is given to the natives of the State of New York?

Captain Tомв. Oh, yes.

Mr. O'LEARY. If they do not fill up the quota, then you take them from other States?

Captain Tомв. No; we do not take them that way. Our appropriation from the State will enable us to carry 145 cadets, so we do not run over that from the State. Then the outside cadets make up the rest. They vary between 11 and 16. Very few young men throughout America can afford this opportunity; can afford the

expense.

Mr. SIROVICH. Do they come from different States of the Union? Captain TоMB. Yes, sir. Of our honor men the last 2 years one was from Chicago and the other was from New Haven,

Mr. SIROVICH. You would amend this bill for the cadets to say that for the first 6 months they should be paid $50 a month and the second 6 months they should be paid $60.

Captain TоMB. About $60, and liberty to graduates of marine schools.

Mr. SIROVICH. Of State marine schools?

Captain TомB. Of State marine schools.

Mr. O'LEARY. Who in the State of New York designates these cadets for the school?

Captain Toмв. They make application for admission and we send them the application blanks, Along with the blanks we send a blank necessary for the high-school marks. He sends that blank to the principal, and the principal returns it to us direct, not through the young man. Also on his own application must be the result of the examination by the family physician, to insure that the young man is physically sound.

Mr. SIROVICH. About how many applications do you have every year in the State of New York?

Captain Tомв. In the State of New York we have, I said, 1 out of 3 entered; I meant 1 out of 3 who was found qualified.

Mr. SIROVICH. How many applications do you have, about 600? Captain TOMB. We have about 360.

Mr. SIROVICH. From this 360 you take about 145?

Captain TоMB. From this 360 we take 90.

Mr. SIROVICH. That comes from the whole State?

Captain TомB. That is from the whole State.

Mr. SIROVICH. So you allocate a certain amount to each county; is that it?

Captain ToмB. No, sir. We take them off the top of the eligible list which is established by their own efforts; in other words, the regent's marks in English, mathematics, general science, and history. We use those 4, and the other 7 units are elective.

Mr. SIROVICH. It is not possible you might have the whole 95 come from the city of New York or Buffalo alone?

Captain ToмB. It is possible; but it has not been done yet on account of those regents' marks, the regents' exams being conducted by the board of regents all over the State at the same time.

Mr. O'LEARY. I am surprised that the Senators and Assemblymen of the State of New York will allow it to function that way.

Mr. SIROVICH. You would think that they would want the privilege that Members of Congress have.

The CHAIRMAN. Is that all?
Captain Tомв. I think so.

Mr. SIROVICH. Can you inform me, Mr. Chairman, about how many States have schools of this type?

The CHAIRMAN. No; I cannot.

Mr. HART. I think there are four in the country.

The CHAIRMAN. Connecticut has.

Mr. HART. California has.

The CHAIRMAN. California and Massachusetts.

Captain Tомв. Connecticut has not. Massachusetts, New York, Pennsylvania, and California. But New York is the only one which takes young men from other States. We have many applications from Colorado, Montana, and other inland States where they cannot have such schools.

Mr. SIROVICH. Did you have any from Alabama?
Captain TOMв. We had one from Alabama.

The CHAIRMAN. I know there has been some action taken in Virginia, but I do not think they have gone very far. They undertook to combine it with a school up in the mountains, but I do not think they could ever work a merchant-marine school up at the Polytechnic Institute. It is the most absurd thing I ever saw. Captain TOMB. May I make one more remark?

I do not think it is possible to develop so many of these State marine schools, for this reason: You will be flooding the licensed grades with officers who cannot obtain employment. I do think that the man before the mast should be given preference in coming. into any national academy on the basis of say 50 percent of the complement for the man actually serving at sea in the deck or engineroom department. The other 50 percent should be allocated among the States in accordance with the population. And keep the number down to a certain number of graduates per annum, and based on that, because the way must be left open for the advancement of the men before the mast in the deck and engine-room departments. The avenue must not be closed to them.

They must have something to work for. I do not think that we should cover more than one-fourth of the vacancies which would normally take place each year. Let the other three-fourths come up from the ranks.

The CHAIRMAN. Have you finished, Captain Tomb?,
Captain TоMB. Yes, sir..