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Q. Did Himmler tell you that he had talked with Funk about this matter?

A. I believe that he had talked with Funk about it.

Q. Do you know in detail what they had been talking about in this connection?

A. What they had been talking about, in detail, I cannot say: I do not recall. I once talked with Funk, but it had nothing to do with that.

Q. What did Himmler talk to Funk about, as far as you know, in relation to the order Himmler gave you?

A. I assume that Himmler and Funk discussed the matter, that the valuables from the concentration camps were to be received by the Reichsbank. Subsequently Himmler said to me: "I want you to do that; deliver them to the Reichsbank."

Q. What particular subjects were discussed at that time?

A. That concerned all the valuables that were delivered from the concentration camps at that time.

Q. Was there any doubt about the fact that it concerned dead Jews?

A. No, there was no doubt about it.

Q. Do you say there was no doubt, or there could not have been any doubt?

A. There couldn't have been any doubt.

Q. Why couldn't there have been any doubt? Where could those things have come from otherwise? Tell me, because you can be quite open with me.

A. There couldn't have been any other source.

Q. When three million disappear, there must have been quite a substantial amount of stuff in one camp. That is, three million in one camp alone. That must have been more than just a few sacks full.

A. There must have been a great total amount.

Q. Now let us go back. We had jewels that went down there to the Reichsbank, and we had the gold eyeglass frames. Is that correct?

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A. Yes.

Q. What else was there? Please tell us in your A. All the things that men can have, rings, watches, eyeglass frames, and gold bars.

Q. And what were those gold bars made from?

A. If you ask me now, those gold bars were made from the melting of the various things, among other things, gold fillings. Q. You have said anything that men can carry.

A. Yes.

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Q. What originated from women?

A. Jewelry, pins, broaches.

Q. Anything else? Earrings? Have we mentioned wedding rings?

A. Yes, we had wedding rings also.

Q. What about earrings?

A. Yes, also earrings.

Q. And when you were down there with Puhl didn't you, at that time, open suitcases full of that stuff?

A. Yes, Puhl showed them to me.

Q. Can you recall any particular suitcase in which certain individual things were contained?

A. Yes, he showed me especially valuable rings which had already been assorted.

Q. Now we want to reconstruct the whole thing as realistically as possible. You were down there at the Reichsbank.

A. Yes.

Q. With whom?

A. From my group there were with me Gruppenfuehrer Loerner, Frank, my adjutant, certainly, and several others.

Q. Then Puhl was there?

A. Yes, Puhl was there, and Waldheeker was there, because I know him personally.

Q. Who else?

A. Puhl and Waldheeker. I believe they were the two from the Reichsbank. Afterwards I was together with Funk.

Q. That is exactly what I want to know. Now why didn't you come out with that right at the beginning? That is what I wanted to know.

A. How could I know that you wanted to find out that sort of thing?

Q. All right, very good. Afterwards you were together with Funk. All right.

A. Afterwards we went upstairs and Funk invited us to have dinner with him. There was a huge, round table. In my opinion there were approximately a dozen people present.

Q. And whom did you sit next to?

A. I sat next to Funk.

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Q. Now, what did you talk about concerning the beautiful things that you had seen downstairs? Please tell us truthfully and openly. Set saild grofs

A. I cannot remember the details exactly, but I think I said that I had seen the Reichsbank for the first time.osgooda untu

Q. Did you say anything about the things which had arrived? What did he say and what did you say?

A. I cannot tell you exactly now what he told me.

Q. Did he tell you anything to the effect that you had delivered the material well and that what had arrived was valuable?

A. That is possible; it is probable that he said such a thing. It is impossible for me to recall in detail the exact words he used when he spoke to me.

Q. But it was in that sense?

A. Yes, I think the conversation was conducted in that sense. Q. How many of the Reichsbank people were present, and how many of yours? How many people were present at the round table?

A. I estimate about twelve people.

Q. Half your people and half Reichsbank people?

A. Yes, approximately. We had been invited in general by the Reichsbank.

Q. I would like to come back once more to the Reichsbank, downstairs. You were standing around with Puhl. You opened at few of the cases from the SS, and those beautiful jewels were in there. What else was in there among all those things?

A. Foreign currency had also been delivered to the Reichsbank. Q. Did he also show you a case full of earrings and wedding rings?

A. Yes, I had seen cases with rings, especially the more valuable things.

Q. Did he also show you some of those gold bars?

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A. I assume so.

Q. Did he make any remark about the fact that you had contributed to the delivery of those gold bars?

A. How do you mean that?

Q. Did he tell you that those gold bars had arrived from the camps?

A. Yes.

Q. Later on, at the meal, was there anything discussed concerning those gold bars?

A. Between my neighbor and myself? Not that I recall. Perhaps, in the beginning, there were a few words exchanged, but during the table conversation nothing further was mentioned along that line.

Q. Funk knew that you had been downstairs, and he told them "bring those people upstairs"?

A. Yes, Funk knew that we had visited the entire Reichsbank.

He knew that.

Q. How did Puhl introduce you to Funk at that time?

A. Funk knew me already.

Q. How long had Funk known you, approximately?

A. Previous to that time I had been at Funk's once. That was the only time that I had to do with Funk.

Q. What business was that?

A. I recall that by order of Himmler I had to visit him in connection with textiles; that was in his capacity as Minister of Economy.

Q. What sort of textiles did that concern?

A. Those were the textiles which were concerned with those actions.

Q. Where did those textiles come from?

A. The textiles remained in the camps, and were then given to the textile industry. Subsequently Himmler sent me to Funk to tell him that he, Himmler, hoped that a greater allotment of clothing material would be sent to the SS, that is, that a higher allotment of clothing would be delivered to the SS.

Q. Let me express myself very clearly, in simple German: From the clothing of the dead Jews, the SS were to receive a greater clothing allotment. That is the meaning, in simple German, is it not?

A. That is probably the way it was meant.

Excerpts from Testimony of Oswald Pohl taken at Nurn-
berg, Germany, 4 June 1946, 1010-1100, by Dr. Robert
Kempner, and Lt. Col. Smith W. Brookhart, Jr., IGD.
Also present: Bert Stein, Interpreter; Piilani A. Ahuna,
Court Reporter.

Himmler Dresses SS Men in Clothes of Dead Jews

Q. Will you put yourself back to the time of your first conversation with Funk?

A. Yes..

Q. What was the approximate date of that conversation?

A. I believe it was the summer of 1944. 1943 or 1944, I don't know exactly, but it was in the summer. It was good weather. The reason why Himmler sent me there was the ever-increas

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ing scarcity of uniforms, and the small contingent that we received from the textile industry, I believe it was President Kehrl who always declared it was not sufficient.

Q. Thereupon you received the order from Himmler to get in contact with Funk?

A. Yes.

Q. Where did you visit Funk?

A. I visited Funk in the Economics Ministry.

Q. What did you tell him at that time in brief?

A. That Himmler sent me to him and wanted to tell him that he hoped the Waffen SS, at the distribution of the textile contingents, would receive preferential treatment, for Himmler was giving the clothing from the Jews to the Economy during the action against the Jews.

Q. Which Jewish actions are in question?

A. That was the liquidation of the Jews.

Q. What quantities of clothing from dead Jews came into consideration?

A. We really did not talk about quantities in detailed figures. Q. Did one mean great, large quantities which justified preferential treatment?

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A. Yes, that is to be supposed.

Q. From where was the clothing of the dead Jews taken, and where was it delivered?

A. They were stored in Auschwitz, and they were delivered, but where they were delivered I don't know. I do know that Gruppenfuehrer Loerner should know about that. He was in charge of the whole utilization of textiles.

Q. How was that? Did the procedure change or vary in a certain period?

A. The procedure did not change much, I don't believe so.

Q. The affair started already in 1941, did it not?

A. Yes. What do you mean?

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Q. So that the Economy must have had something to do with that prior to that time?

A. The Economy had always something to do with it. The things were always turned over to the Economy.

Q. When speaking of the Economy, which agency do you mean? A. Our textile contingent was always negotiating with President Kehrl. H vdw no

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