Senator Proxmire were just discussing, where programs spill across departmental lines and we believe that under the proposed reorganization, the cabinet heads will have more opportunity to do more of the kind of balancing and drawing together of options and program-wide proposals than is now the case. For example, water and sewer programs are split up among three departments. Just to develop water policy programs now is very difficult because it is split among Agriculture, Interior Department, and the Defense Department. These programs would be brought together under the President's reorganization proposals. We also would plan to have, in the event the Congress were to approve these departments, an undersecretary in each of these departments for policy and evaluation to give a higher emphasis and to place higher on the work agenda of these departments, in the development of goals and priorities and the establishment of evaluation efforts. Another area which I mentioned very briefly that I think is of interest is the shift which has been made during the past year in the managerial focus. It is enuciated in what used to be the Bureau of the Budget, now OMB Circular A-44, in which the principal emphasis used to be on efficiency and now has been shifted to effectiveness. Mr. Chairman, our efforts in this direction are at a very early stage. We do feel that the shift in emphasis, however, is significant. The last managerial effort I mention is the effort to develop performance measurement systems for key programs and establishing priorities and objectives and a more systematic means for meeting them. A great deal of interest has been expressed through the hearings of this committee and your work in other committees with respect to a social report to the Nation. We approach that, with mixed feelings. The Federal Government now has a good many reports, some of them very good, some of them very significant in social areas. There is, of course, a "state of the Union" message and there is the budget document. However, we recognize that there are elements in the proposed social report which go beyond what is now formulated in any one of those documents. We would agree that the concept should be given serious consideration. The principal word of caution that we would stress in examining this question is that in view of the relatively early stage of development of the social indicators, it is important that a report not be developed which would be misleading, and would suggest a quality and reliability of information which is not in existence today and which is not available. I would like to conclude these remarks, if I may, by asking Mr. Shiskin to briefly outline what we regard as a very worthwhile and promising effort in the Office of Management and Budget to develop what we regard as vital building blocks in the very important area of social indicators. Then, we would be happy to answer questions. Senator MONDALE. All right, Mr. Shiskin? Mr. SHISKIN. Thank you, Senator Mondale. We want to take a few minutes to describe the work that we have been doing during the past 2 years on social indicators. This work began in the summer of 1969 with a very small staff. Our role is a developmental one. We lean heavily on the Federal statistical agencies to contribute the actual statistical information. For example, statistics on education are developed by the National Center for Educational Statistics. The work on health, the statistical work on health, is done at the National Center for Health Statistics. The work on crime statistics is carried out in the Department of Justice and so forth. So, while the OMB staff is very small, the overall effort is a substantial one. Let me turn to a few of the problems that we run into. Unlike the economic areas, we have found that there is no theoretical framework for which we can collect a set of social indicators. Before 1946, when the first Senator MONDALE. What kind of educational statistics are you trying to collect? What questions are you asking? Mr. SHISKIN. Well, there are, as you know, Senator, a vast array of educational statistics on the input of various resources in education. Senator MONDALE. What are you seeking to develop? Mr. SHISKIN. We are seeking measures of output, what people learn from the educational system as well as some measures of input. Senator MONDALE. What questions are you asking? Mr. SHISKIN. We are building work on education around the following questions: The first is-we call these social concerns, for lack of a better term-is everyone in society achieving basic skills? The second social concern is-are there opportunities for those able to and interested in pursuing advanced learning? Now, to do this we are compiling information on enrollment and graduation. We have selected five different series for this purpose. We are also compiling data on measures of achievement and we have selected four series on that. Under opportunities for those able and interested in pursuing advanced learning, we have an area of enrollment. We have selected five series on enrollment. Then, we have data on graduation and we have taken two series on that. So, this gives you an example of what we are trying to do in the field of education. Mr. INK. I would stress that we regard this as a building block, Mr. Chairman, in the broad effort to improve social indicators. How we develop social indicators that better measure what we are doing or what we are failing to do is the kind of work that the National Science Foundation and others are working on. We are developing programs in that area. The National Science Foundation, as you may know, in each of the last 2 years has doubled its budget request for work on social indicators and I wanted to distinguish between this building block concerning existing data and the more sophisticated development of how you get at what is most truly significant. Senator MONDALE. What is the budget of the Domestic Council in the Executive Office of the President? What size is it this year? Mr. INK. I don't have the budget here but the Domestic Council, Mr. Chairman, has requested a total of 70 positions for fiscal year 1972. Senator MONDALE. 70 positions? Mr. INK. That includes clerical. Senator MONDALE. How many did you have this year? Mr. INK. I believe it is 47 or 48. I would have to check. Senator MONDALE. Do you know the size of Domestic Council's budget? Mr. INK. I am sorry. I don't off hand. Senator MONDALE. Could you submit for the record the size of the budget for last year, the proposed size, the positions, and the specialties involved in those positions, for the record? Mr. INK. Yes, sir. The budget material on the size of the Domestic Council was given to the Appropriations Committee. We would be happy to supply that for the record. Senator MONDALE. I would like to know also what kinds of specialties these professionals possess. In other words, I would like to know what kinds of people are being hired. Mr. INK. Yes. (The information to be furnished follows:) EXECUTIVE OFFICE OF THE PRESIDENT WASHINGTON, D.C. 20503 AUG 20 1971. Honorable Walter F. Mondale Chairman, Special Subcommittee on Evaluation and Planning of Social Programs Senate Committee on Labor and Public Welfare United States Senate Washington, D. C. 20510 Dear Mr. Chairman: In response to your request made at the Tuesday, July 13, hearing on S. 5, I am submitting the following information about the Domestic Council: Assignments for staff members are flexible and will vary according to current priorities, particularly below the Assistant Director level. Background in Political Science-Government. Egil Krogh, Jr. Attorney. is, areas, qfcialization are 2 Edward L. Morgan Attorney. His areas of specialization are John C. Whitaker Mr. Whitaker has a Ph.D in Geology. His Of the sixteen current additional professionals, the largest number have backgrounds in law. Others have backgrounds in public administration and business administration, and one staff member has a background in military service. Professional staff members most recently hired include Raymond Waldmann, with degrees in chemistry, law, and humanities-economics, and formerly with Arthur D. Little; Dr. Roy Morey, former professor of political science; Miss Vicki L. Keller, and Miss Sallyanne Payton. The attached press release will provide information about the latter two people. The balance of Domestic Council positions are clerical and secretarial. Enclosure Sincerely, Lought Dwight A. Ink |