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ASSISTANT SECRETARY - INDIAN AFFATES

LISTING OF POSITIONS

ASSISTANT SECRETARY-INDIAN AFFAIRS

Immediate Office (16 professionals; 11 non-professionals): Assistant Secretary, Forrest J. Gerard; Deputy Asssistant Secretary, Rick C. Lavis; Executive Assistant, Rodger Boyd; Confidential Staff Assistant, Mozelle Henry; Special Assistant (Natural Resources), Jim Sansaver; Special Assistant Leg. and Liaison), Suzan Harjo; Special Assistant (Alaska), Irene Rowan; Special Assistant (Fishing), Sue Hvalsoe (IPA); Special Assistant (Section Operations), John Meyers; Program Analyst, Judie Zundel; Program Analyst, Diane Papaj; Administrative Services Specialist, Stella Delaware; Staff Assistant, (vacant); Special Assistant, (vacant); Special Assistant, (vacant); Special Assistant, (vacant); Program Analyst, (vacant); Secretary, (vacant); Secretary, (vacant); Executive Secretary, Joyce Conner; Secretary, (vacant); 4 Secretaries (Steno), (vacant); 2 Clerical Assistants (Typing), (vacant); Clerk, (vacant).

Office of Policy, Planning and Evaluation (7 professionals; 2 non-professionals): Office was created in March 1979 (109 DM 8, March 7, 1979); positions have not been filled yet: PPE Officer; Planner; Policy Formulator; (3) Evaluator; Budget Analyst (Formulation); (2) Secretary.

Office of Management Oversight (5 professionals; 2 non-professionals): (Procurement Specialist, Linus Brown, Jr. (proposed).

Office was created in March 1979 (109 DM 8, March 7, 1979); no other positions have been filled yet: Management Oversight Officer; Personnel Management Specialist; Budget Analyst (Implementation); MIS Specialist; Secretary; Clerk-Typist. Management Improvement Program (6 professionals; 4 non-professionals): Program. Manager, Charles Hughes (proposed); Secretary, (vacant); Field Operations Project Manager, Jim Canan (proposed); Secretary, (vacant); Training & Professional Assistant Manager, John Artichoker (proposed); Staff Assistant, Ron Jaeger (proposed); Staff Assistant, Lillian Brand (proposed); Management Analyst Officer, George Gover (proposed); Secretary, (vacant).

All vacancies are expected to be filled by September 30, 1979. We plan no fiscal year 1980 lapse.

TRAVEL

Senator STEVENS. You've got $325,000 for travel in the Assistant Secretary's Office alone. That's more than $10,000 for each person if you've got 27 policy positions. Why do we need that? The President has requested a 20-percent reduction in administrative travel and yet you have duplicative travel in your situation.

Mr. GERARD. Essentially we are faced with this situation, Mr. Chairman. In moving forward with management improvement we need to undertake a fair amount of field travel for a number of the reviews. In addition, we are trying to maintain open consultation with both the Indian and Native groups in Alaska as we bring about a number of these changes.

BIA COMMISSIONER

Senator STEVENS. Well, is the Commissioner's Office doing the same thing?

Mr. GERARD. The Commissioner's Office would not be involved in the management improvement efforts that we are involved in. Senator STEVENS. Well, they're involved in the travel though, aren't they?

Mr. GERARD. The Commissioner's Office, as it now exists, is responsible more for the day-to-day operation of the Bureau's programs, the execution of the current budget and so on.

Senator STEVENS. Why do we really need a Commissioner now that you've got your position on the Assistant Secretary level? Why do we really need the Commissioner's Office at all? Isn't there a redundancy there?

Mr. GERARD. I think not, for this reason, in that the Assistant Secretary is operating primarily in the policy management oversight, forward planning area, while the Commissioner would be the day-to-day manager of the Bureau. Actually, this change places Indian Affairs pretty much in line with the other major functions within the Department.

The Assistant Secretary for Land and Water, for example, has a couple of major bureaus under his jurisdiction.

MANAGEMENT OVERSITE

Senator STEVENS. I'm told that there are seven positions that are being used to oversee BIA management and that you also have a management improvement program. Is that right?

Mr. GERARD. That's correct, sir.

Senator STEVENS. One has a staff of 10 and another has a staff of 7. Why do we need one group to oversee management and another group to have a management improvement program, both on the Assistant Secretary's level?

Mr. GERARD. The management improvement program staff is currently in existence and they are overseeing the range of improvements that we currently have underway. We are in the process of developing the mission, the functional statements, and policy descriptions for the other two staff offices, the management oversight and the policy and planning office.

Senator STEVENS. Now you have another 10. That appears to be the Office of Policy Planning and Evaluation. It certainly seems to be a redundancy for management and planning improvement as far as the Secretary's Office is concerned, particularly when there's a Commissioner's Office just below it doing the same thing.

Mr. GERARD. I think most of the criticisms contained in a number of the objective studies in the past, Mr. Chairman-the American Policy Review Commission is one example and I believe the Appropriations Committees from time to time have pointed out the failure of objective, advanced planning, forward planning in the Bureau of Indian Affairs, and the idea here is to have that capacity in the Office of the Assistant Secretary with that small unit to set some forward goals and objectives that would ultimately be worked into budget formulation.

Senator STEVENS. Well, I think the committee ought to be given some indication of when the redundancy in management oversight will be eliminated, particularly as long as we're going to keep the Commissioner's Office. Is the Commissioner's Office filled now? Mr. GERARD. We have an Acting Deputy Commissioner and we are in the process of recruiting the nominee for the Commissioner. Senator STEVENS. How long has it been vacant? Has it been vacant since you became Assistant Secretary?

Mr. GERARD. The post has actually been vacant since former Commissioner Thompson departed. There's been a series of people acting in that post.

CONTRACT SERVICES

Senator STEVENS. What about this $511,000 for other services? Mr. GERARD. It's envisioned that not all of the work will be accomplished by direct staff. We hope to use a mix of contracts with private consulting firms and native Indian organizations as well. Our contract with Price Waterhouse & Co. to help us revise our internal fiscal controls is an illustrative example of where we have used contract support to accomplish some of our reforms.

SUPPORT STAFF

Senator STEVENS. What are you going to use these eight special assistants for? These are special assistants, are they not?

Mr. GERARD. That is correct. They are working in such functional areas as natural resources. We have a major role in implementation of the President's water policy. One of the major areas of concern that my office has dealt with almost since my arrival is the fulfillment of Indian treaty and other legal fishing rights, and because of the unique challenges that Alaska poses to us I appointed a specialist on Alaska. I have a person handling legislation and liaison. Those kinds of functional areas are where these eight positions will be used.

Senator STEVENS. Well, how many of the 53 positions in your office are filled now?

Mr. GERARD. As of March 15, Mr. Chairman, 29 positions were actually encumbered.

Senator STEVENS. Do you have any plans in the immediate future to fill the other 24?

Mr. GERARD. In the two staff offices-for example, as we complete the mission statements, the functional statements, and draft the personnel descriptions, we would move forward to fill those posts.

COMMISSIONER'S STAFF

Senator STEVENS. And how many are in the Commissioner's Office?

Mr. GERARD. In the Commissioner's immediate office, Mr. Chairman, there are six. There is a total of 48; however, they comprise a number of staff offices such as Equal Employment Opportunity, both in headquarters and the field.

Senator STEVENS. How many of those are filled? That would be 54 all together. How many of those are filled?

Mr. GERARD. This is at the Bureau level?

Senator STEVENS. This is the Commissioner's office.

Mr. GERARD. Yes, sir. I could give you a rundown. In the immediate office we have 6, Equal Employment Opportunity central office is 7, Equal Employment Opportunity field is 11, public information is 4, correspondence control is 4. There's a special unit to oversee the implementation of Public Law 93-638, the Indian Self-Determination Act. There's six in that. In congressional and legislative affairs there's 10. The total amounts to 48 in the Commissioner's Office.

INDIAN PREFERENCE

Senator STEVENS. Why do you need Equal Employment Opportunity people when you've got a mandate regarding Indian preference?

Mr. MEIEROTTO. Mr. Chairman, I think every bureau in the Department has an obligation under the law to have an equal employment opportunity program.

Senator STEVENS. How can you say that when you've got mandated Indian preference.

Mr. GERARD. There are still other areas, Mr. Chairman, in terms of trying to increase the number of women in Government. There are other aspects of equal employment aside from the mandated Indian preference. You're quite right, the Bureau probably does have a larger share of minority employment than any other bureau in the Department or perhaps the Government.

Mr. MEIEROTTO. We still have discrimination complaints that have to be processed in the Bureau. The Indian Preference Act does not eliminate a person's right to file a complaint, and we have to process them at the Bureau level.

BIA REORGANIZATION

Senator STEVENS. Well, it does seem there's a great deal of redundancy. Are there any plans to reorganize the whole area for Indian Affairs? Now we all want that whole area to be represented by an Assistant Secretary, but I don't think any of us realized we were going to build an Assistant Secretary's Office on top of the Commissioner's Office on top of the existing Bureau. It sounds like what happened to Fish and Wildlife during my day.

Mr. GERARD. Mr. Chairman, several weeks ago I submitted to the members of the committee as well as the staff a summary of our total management improvement program. I don't know if you want to get into this in any detail today, but we do have a number of activities ongoing that I believe are going to lead to some meaningful structural reform as we move down the road. I think the decision to create an Assistant Secretary was sound. It gives Indian Affairs access to the decisionmakers in the Department, the Secretary, the Under Secretaries, the Solicitor. I think my predecessors who were Commissioners in the past were somewhat handicapped in that they did not have that direct access and there are many examples we could point to where this kind of arrangement has served in the best interest of the Indians and the Alaskan Natives. Senator STEVENS. Would you please give us your staff chart and list the offices that are filled in the Commissioner's office? Mr. GERARD. Yes, sir. We will be glad to provide that for the record.

[The information follows:]

LISTING OF POSITIONS

OFFICE OF COMMISSIONER-FISCAL YEAR 1980

Immediate Office.-Commissioner, (vacant); Deputy Commissioner, Martin Seneca (Acting); Executive assistant, LaFollette Butler (Acting); Staff assistant, (vacant), Secretary, Jean Kooney; Secretary, (vacant).

Office of Equal Employment Opportunity Staff Central Office.-EEO officer, James Gabbard; Federal Women's Coordinator, Evelyn Pickett; EO specialist, (vacant); EO specialist SEP, (vacant); EEO officer, Tom Fields; EO technician, (vacant); Secretary, Grace Sine.

EEO Office (field operations).—11 EEO officers, offices in field-positions have not been filled yet. (New field offices).

Public information staff.-Public information officer, William Engles; Public information specialist, Vincent Lovett; Public information specialist, Harriett Burgess; Clerk steno (vacant).

Correspondence control staff.-Staff assistant, (vacant); Correspondence specialist, Mary Lertjuntharangool; Correspondence specialist, Crucita Grover; Correspondence specialist, Martha Chino.

Indian self-determination policy.-Indian self-determination officer, (vacant); Indian self-determination analyst, Helen Miller; Indian self-determination analyst, Ray Maldonado; Program officer, J. Fenelon.

Intergovernmental relations staff.-Intergovernmental Relations Specialist, (vacant); Clerk typist, (vacant).

Congressional and legislative affairs.-Legislative development officer, Ralph Reeser; Legislative coordinator, Woodrow Sneed; Congressional relations specialist, J. Ale; Legislative specialist, (vacant); Legislative specialist, M. Wilkins; Legislative specialist, M. Keel; Legislative specialist, (vacant); Legislative specialist, (vacant); Secretary (steno), (vacant); Legislative assistant, G. Green.

NEW POSITIONS

Senator STEVENS. I think that's going to be important because, as I understand it, the Secretary's Office wants a total increase of about 18 new positions. Is that right?

Mr. MEIEROTTO. Yes, Mr. Chairman.

Senator STEVENS. Why do you want so many new positions when we've got 24 vacant ones right there that have been vacant now for 2 years?

Mr. MEIEROTTO. We felt, Mr. Chairman, that the positions related to Indian Affairs do belong to Indian Affairs and

Senator STEVENS. Why don't you fill them then?