On the other hand, there are some large operations recently opened up, one or two that I know of, that have a very large proportion of the class of timber that, under your bill, would be covered, and those logs would certainly be available for export if it was desirable for the owner to export them; and I don't think that we are prepared yet to answer the question as to just what the range of quality in the Canadian timber is. I know there are published reports which show, as you said, 16 billion feet of accessible Douglas fir timber. I think a substantial part of that 16 billion feet would come within the specifications of your bill, and while it may last 5 years or 10 years or 15 years, it is an active, competitive factor, as long as it lasts, and we can't stand any more of that Canadian competition than we have today.

Senator HOLMAN. May I ask you this? If the definition in this bill of a "peeler" log was changed so as to make the diameter 36 or 38 inches, instead of 24, would you oppose the bill?

Colonel GREELEY. It would be much less objectionable, Senator Holman, but let me just again emphasize this viewpoint, that you have got a much larger problem here than just the plywood problem. It runs all through our industries, and I would like to see a sincere effort made to work it out as a whole problem-pulp, lumber, as well as plywood-and I think the right way to undertake that is first to find out what we can do in cooperation with Canada.

Now, if that door is closed, and we cannot do anything with Canada, I would favor going ahead along some such line as you have just suggested.

Senator MCNARY. Are you through, Mr. Oxholm?

Mr. OXHOLM. Yes.

Senator MCNARY. You may be excused, Colonel Greeley.

We will now adjourn until 10 o'clock Monday morning.

(Whereupon, at 4:20 p. m., an adjournment was taken until 10 o'clock Monday morning, May 15, 1939.)

RESTRICTING EXPORTATION OF DOUGLAS FIR PEELER

LOGS AND PORT ORFORD CEDAR LOGS

MONDAY, MAY 15, 1939

UNITED STATES SENATE,

SUBCOMMITTEE ON FISHERIES, FOREST PRODUCTS, MINERALS,
AND LAND SURVEYS OF THE COMMITTEE ON COMMERCE,
Washington, D. C.

The subcommittee met, pursuant to adjournment, at 10 a. m.
Senator BILBO. The committee will be in order.

Senator HOLMAN. May I offer for the record four photographs that I received this morning of peeler logs, and with that a memorandum from which I would like to read?

Senator BILBO. Yes.

Senator HOLMAN. These photographs were taken the early part of this month [reading]:

These photographs show a load of Douglas fir peeler logs being exported to Germany on the Hamburg-American Line, steamer Portland.

It is my understanding the logs shown in these photographs were loaded at Vancouver, British Columbia. However, the general opinion is that the timber is of United States origin.

I do not have any legal proof, but rumor has it that these particular logs were purchased around Bellingham and Everett, towed to British Columbia, and sorted. The logs suitable for the manufacture of veneer were exported and the balance of the logs were sold in the British Columbia market for Canadian consumption.

I would like particularly, Mr. Chairman, to show you these pictures.

Senator BILBO. Of course, we can publish your observation of the fact that you presented the pictures, but it is my understanding that the reports of the committee do not carry pictures.

Senator HOLMAN. No; but I want them in the files so that the members of the committee, in studying this, may examine the pictures. Senator BILBO. Yes, sir; that is very fine.

(The photographs were filed with the committee.)

Senator HOLMAN. I have a memorandum here under the caption "Germany-Shortage of veneer logs results in large American purchases. Difficulties in obtaining logs for veneer purposes from countries where payment over clearings is prescribed caused the Germany plywood industries to place large contracts for American Douglas fir logs. Recent business in such logs is said to have reached 50,000,000 feet. Because of the great difficulty experienced by the Germany factories now and during the past year in obtaining peeler logs suitable for face veneers, German plywood imports amounted to 40,709 metric tons for the first 11 months of 1938, representing an increase of 54

49

percent over imports for the same period of 1937. These imports. came chiefly from Finland, Latvia, the Soviet Union, Poland, Lithuania, and the Balkans. Softwood plywood was chiefly furnished by Sweden, the United States, formerly a large supplier of softwood plywood, made no shipment to Germany in 1938."

Mr. Silcox, of the forestry department, is here, and he is anxious to get away. May I request, Mr. Chairman, that he be invited to testify at this time?

Senator BILBO. I appreciate the fact that Mr. Silcox is a very busy man, and we will be glad to hear from him now.

STATEMENT OF F. A. SILCOX, CHIEF OF THE FOREST SERVICE, UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE

Mr. SILCOX. Mr. Chairman, my major interest in this bill is in its relation to the general economic situation of the Northwest and to the supply of raw material required to sustain the industry continuously.

The bill proposes to place an embargo on so-called peeler logs, the dimensions outlined in the bill being 24 inches at either end.

Now, I think I had better give you briefly a statement I included in the annual report as to the general situation. There is about 25,000,000 acres of softwood, that is, the pines and spruces and Douglas fir, in the Pacific Northwest. There has been cut over about four and a half million acres, which are practically nonproductive. There will be a gap in the resources in the Northwest at the present rate of cutting.

The annual growth, as determined by our experiment station, is about 2.7 billion board feet, and the annual drain is computed at 912 billion board feet.

Now, the major concern that I have in this whole situation is the threat of export of irreplaceable raw materials from this country, whether it be copper or peeler logs. I can't see any soundness of international trade built up on sending out of this country material that we ourselves are going to have to use.

I was on the mineral policy committee, and at that time there was a rough estimate of about 15 years' supply of copper. Well, conceivably any one of the copper companies could make an individual profit possibly in shipping copper out of the country, but with a raw material as short as that, it seemed to me that sound national policy would conserve that copper in this country for our own use.

Now, with regard to peeler logs, it has taken-from various estimates from 2 to 5 hundred years to grow this valuable material. My feeling has been very definitely that the export of this class of material, whether to Japan or the United Kingdom or somewhere else in raw form was unsound national policy. I am not going into statistical details as to the relative amounts, as Mr. Steer from our office will be glad to go into that for you.

But I am interested in that whole set-up out there, because I see that what is going to happen in the Pacific Northwest, and is already happening, is the great gap between the young timber coming up and exhaustion of the large timber.

Now, it is not a matter of "Woodman, spare that tree" conservation, because we shall utilize that material, we shall cut it, and a lot of

it is very mature, but I am not particularly worried about the depreciation in those stands. My concern is that we shall hold enough high quality standing timber in reserve to bridge the gap at the present rate of cutting between the time when the other stands are cut out and the small timber gets to cuttable size; and feed it into the local market at a rate that will partly bridge that gap, so that your industries out there are not going to have a feast and a famine. The embargo on the shipment of these large logs seems to me a desirable thing in connection with the needs of our own industry.

Now, the effects of it-I am not going into detail as to the effect on Canada or the effect on Japan or the volume of shipments to this place or that, but the basis of the analysis of the volume of material out there, and our own industries, dependent on that-it seems to me that from a national policy standpoint, even if it hurts some individuals, the fundamentally sound thing to do is to hold on to this material which we have got to have to bridge this gap ahead of us; I mean the rate of growth figures, the areas cut over, the large areas that are not reproducing at all, or are in small timber-all these mean that it is going to take time to grow this stuff again, and the larger stuff is irreplaceable in any reasonable time.

Now, I will be glad to answer any questions, and I simply wind up by saying that-being presumptuous enough to comment on foreign trade-it seems to me that it is unsound, where we have material of this sort that we are not using to employ our own labor to ship these raw materials out of the country, particularly where we can see far enough ahead to ascertain definitely that we are going to need it.

Senator BILBO. Mr. Silcox, what part of this 25,000,000 acres has been denuded of this growth, where these specially fine woods are being replanted now by your service in conjunction with the State service?

Mr. SILCOX. There is very little of this being replanted.
Senator BILBO. Is it reforesting itself by nature?

Mr. SILCOX. Some of it is, but according to our estimates last year about 4.4 million acres, once forested, and still chiefly valuable as forest lands, are now practically unproductive.

Senator HOLMAN. That is a little less than 10 percent of the entire area?

Mr. SILCOX. Now, I could put this in as a background.

Commercial conifer land-that is the type of land of Douglas firtotals 25.8 million acres. About 11,000,000 acres are in old growth, producing little, if any, net increment because natural losses offset growth. . About 10,000,000 acres are in growing forests not fully stocked.

Senator HOLMAN. Just what does that mean?

Mr. SILCOX. The lands are not producing full capacity. About 4.4 million acres, once forested and still chiefly valuable as forest lands, are now practically unproductive.

Senator BILBO. No trees growing there?

Mr. SILCOX. That is right.

So the current annual coniferous growth is computed at 2.7 billion board-feet. The annual drain is computed at 9.5 billion board-feet. Annual drain is, therefore, about three and one-half times the annual