I don't know. There would have to be a method worked out, but through that process the tribe would then authorize each fisherman to supply to the cannery or the smokehouse so many fish. Then to the enhancement programs that would be established by the tribes, through cooperation with the Federal Government or other agencies, we would know exactly how many fish we would have to put back into that river.

So that the fishery resource could be maintained that way. We believe that that is workable.

However, we do not believe that at this particular point in time-because of the many problems, and they are major problems, that are contributing to the decline of the salmon, that commercial fishing can be permitted at this time.

In response to the many accusations and emotions of individuals who blame the decline of the resource on Indians, I think that it must be pointed out that there are many other factors that contribute to that.

Number one, the low flows of water caused by the dam, the Lewiston Dam. The stream saltation caused by the flood of 1964 and the destruction of the spawning beds. Then there are extremely poor logging practices in the entire Trinity River basin.

Then, of course, the offshore fishing and I guess if we want to emphasize that these are problems, we can look back to the time when there was not heavy commercial fishing, when there was not heavy logging, when the streams flowed freely, we did not have a shortage of salmon resources at that time.

The 1979 fishing regulations provide for severe penalties. We don't believe that those regulations are entirely necessary and we believe that they have come about because of pressures brought onto the Department of the Interior and Congress by non-Indian fishing interests.

Our tribal council has taken the position and we will continue to maintain the position that we alone have the right to determine the manner and method by which the Hoopa people fish for subsistence and ceremonial purposes.

We firmly believe that the Federal Government could much better utilize the funds that they are utilizing for enforcement purposes on the reservation if they were utilized for enhancement

programs.

There has been a lot of discussion about the problems on the reservation in addition to the fishing problems, which, of course, is only one problem that the reservation has.

The fishing problem, we do not believe is a problem that can be solved, unless the total problems on the reservations are solved. What does the Jessie Short case decision in the United States Court of Claims, which the Hoopa tribe does not and will not ever accept, the misconceptions that the Yurok people have.

They say that they believe they will receive a judgment in that case and then they somehow believe that they will somehow get a homeland and a reservation.

There is not land available for a homeland on the reservation for 5,000 to 6,000 people. Nor is there the resources on the reservation, as it is now constituted to support 5,000 to 6,000 people.

I have a map here today that shows you the valley portion which is on the 12-mile-square portion of the reservation and it shows you the habitable land in the 12-mile-square portion of the reservation, how that land is occupied.

We have it color-coded to show you how the different families live in different areas on that reservation. Traditionally these families have lived in these areas of the reservation and as you can see by the map, there is very, very little available land in the Hoopa. Valley Indian Reservation that is suitable for settlement.

If you will note, there is one large area of land that has no color code on it which is this area here [indicating].

That area of land is occupied or partially occupied by the Bureau of Indian Affairs, set aside as an agency reserve. There is 50 acres of land which was donated to the Klamath/Trinity School District for them to construct a school and other necessary facilities.

Then there is approximately another 20 acres of land that has been developed by the tribe as a park and recreational playground for little league baseball, softball and such as that.

But as you can see by the map, the land is almost totally occupied and we ourselves have many, many younger tribal members who do not at this particular point in time have land.

The Hoopa Square, of course, is the traditional homeland of the Hoopa people and we proposed to the Yurok people in a settlement offer that we have submitted to mediators that were appointed in March of 1978 to hopefully bring the parties together to resolve this dispute that has been ongoing for approximately 17 years-we believe that there is a solution to the problem.

We believe that the solution will require restoration of the Yurok homeland and only in that way can the reservation support 5,000 to 6,000 people.

That land base must be expanded and we believe also that this can be accomplished. Of course if the two tribes agree and following that, if there is strenuous efforts by the California congressional delegation to support and move through Congress a settlement agreement by the two tribes.

I would also like to suggest something that was alluded to earlier by Congressman McCloskey regarding the audit of reservation funds.

We have this, of course, you have probably seen-a written testimony. If the GAO is not going to perform an audit, then we suggest that the Government hire an independent certified public accountant.

Mr. MCCLOSKEY. You wouldn't trust the BIA to do that, would you?

Mr. MASTEN. No, sir.

Mr. MCCLOSKEY. I see.

Mr. CLAUSEN. Will you ask the same question of the Yuroks, Pete?

Mr. MASTEN. But I feel there is a lot of misconceptions about the income. I don't think; I know.

Mr. MCCLOSKEY. Mr. Masten, if we were to honor your suggestion-if the Congress were to authorize hiring a CPA, whose records would you want them to audit, your entire tribal records would be turned over for audit, or the BIA records also?

Mr. MASTEN. I think it's a very-it would be very simple to determine the total income of the reservation from 1955 to 1974. This is the period of time that I assume it would cover.

That's a very simple matter. The distribution of those funds after the total income has been in would take a little bit more time, but I firmly believe that this would be a proper course of action. Mr. MCCLOSKEY. You think that one CPA hired by the Congress could do it in perhaps 90 days?

Mr. MASTEN. I believe so.

Mr. MCCLOSKEY. And you are talking of-

Mr. MASTEN. A CPA firm.

Mr. MCCLOSKEY. And you would turn over your entire records for audit by the CPA?

Mr. MASTEN. Our audits? I can't answer that because that would be a decision by the tribal council.

Mr. MCCLOSKEY. Aren't you president of the present tribal council?

Mr. MASTEN. Yes; but that decision isn't up to me at all.

Mr. MCCLOSKEY. You would recommend to the tribal council that?

Mr. MASTEN. I might add that the Bureau of Indian Affairs—— Mr. MCCLOSKEY [interrupting]. Just a minute. I want to make that clear.

Mr. MASTEN. They have the same records that we have.

Mr. MCCLOSKEY. Do I understand that you would recommend to your tribal council that they turn over all records for audit, should the Congress hire a CPA?

Mr. MASTEN. I would certainly convey to them that that question was asked of me today by you and that you would feel, as I understand, that that would be a necessary part of the audit. Mr. MCCLOSKEY. We don't want to hire a CPA unless we have a commitment from you that the auditor can examine all the records.

Mr. MASTEN. Well, I guess what I am saying is that any money that has gone to the tribe, of course, is distributed through the Bureau of Indian Affairs trust account systems.

So, you know, all those records would be available at the Bureau of Indian Affairs.

Mr. MCCLOSKEY. But what the GAO said to us was that if they had no right of access to tribal records then they couldn't make an audit and that is why they declined to do it.

That is why I am pressing this point. If we can be sure that an accountant hired by us would have access, not just to the BIA records, but to your records, which the GAO does not have, then I think we have a decision that we can make.

Mr. MASTEN. You know, I will relay that to the tribal council and if it appears that the committee, this committee or any other committee or any other agency of the Federal Government might be interested in doing that and that you consider that a pertinent part of the audit, I would certainly convey that to the tribal council.

Mr. MCCLOSKEY. Well, could you give us an answer within 30 days, because part of our position on our part is to recognize you as

a sovereign nation and not to audit your records unless you say we can audit your records.

And we think you ought to clarify that point. If you can get an answer, then that will help.

Mr. MASTEN. I might add that in the letter that we sent to the Bureau of Indian Affairs, we have told them that we would make our audits available to them, providing that they allow the auditors that come in to do the audit to audit their records because they are handling the money for us.

Mr. MCCLOSKEY. We don't trust them any more than you do, but we would like to audit your records, too.

Mr. MASTEN. Well, I guess my response could be that we have offered to make our audits available to the Bureau, if in turn they would allow auditors to audit their expenditures of funds over the period of years.

Mr. MCCLOSKEY. Well, what you propose is that we essentially audit both. We audit their records and your records and you will convey a position to the tribe and give us-

Mr. MASTEN. Because we also want to know how the Bureau has handled that money since 1955.

Mr. CLAUSEN. Will the chairman yield?

Mr. BREAUX. Well, we will still have another witness and I would like to get them all in the record and then we can ask some questions.

Mr. CLAUSEN. Well, I just want to clear up one point.

I understand your comments that if there were to be an audit that the same information that is available now to the BIA would be exactly the same as a result of an audit of your organization. Is that essentially what you are saying?

Mr. MASTEN. Yes.

Mr. CLAUSEN. Is it that the BIA already has this information? Mr. MASTEN. That's correct, that's correct.

Mr. CLAUSEN. All right.

Mr. BREAUX. Please continue.

Mr. MASTEN. I might add one more thing.

Our intent is that the audit and the offer that we made on the audit was in some ways a tradeoff on some of the proposals for the arrogant and dictatorial orders of the Bureau that they are trying to impose on us.

I will see if I can make a copy of the letter available to this committee and I guess the last comment that I was going to make was that we feel that it is absolutely necessary, because of the misconceptions about the amount of income over the years has been for the reservation, that there be an independent and unbiased report made so that hopefully all parties will accept that. Mr. CLAUSEN. Of the BIA's activities as well?

Mr. MASTEN. Well, if you recall, Congressman Clausen, there have been accusations that the Bureau of Indian Affairs has not correctly reported the total reservation income and our independent assessment is that it is pretty accurate, but in order to set aside hopefully this misconception about what the reservation income is, we believe that it is dependent on what an auditing firm might do. I might also add that speaking about resolving the total reservation problems, that a recent filing of a motion by the-in the Court

of Claims, if granted by the court would in effect make moot all motions and actions by the court in the lawsuit back to 1973.

We believe that that motion is going to be granted by the court. So, you know, where does that take us? What is the solution to the endless problems that we have? We believe that there is a solution and we believe that it could be settled between the tribes.

We believe that any agreement within reason between the tribes and supported by the California congressional delegation, could be passed into law.

Mr. MCCLOSKEY. I can assure, Mr. Masten, that the tribes will never agree-if the tribes will ever agree, the entire California delegation will support the agreement.

Mr. MASTEN. That is what I have been lead to believe, yes. And that is why I say that I believe that the problems could be solved in a relatively short period of time, say, 6 months.

I think the tribes could come to an agreement and I think that it would be eventually ratified in the form of legislation by Congress and I think that there would be much support from many, many interested parties for a settlement of the issues and the disputes. Before I turn this over to Mr. Pole, I would like to say one thing. If I heard correctly earlier, somebody said that there was about $500,000 worth of fish taken out of the Klamath River and sold commercially and something popped into my mind and that was that $500,000 is over 50 percent of what the total Hoopa Tribal budget was for this fiscal year.

Mr. Pole?

Mr. BREAUX. Thank you, Mr. Masten, for your statement.
Mr. Lyle Pole?

STATEMENT OF LYLE POLE, REPRESENTATIVE, HOOPA INDIAN

RESERVATION

Mr. POLE. Mr. Chairman, Members of Congress and distinguished members of this committee, I would like to thank you for allowing me to participate in the testimony of this hearing.

I believe that the first and foremost in the longstanding misunderstanding between the Congress of the United States, the BIA and the Indian people of this Nation is the failure of the BIA and Congress to take into consideration the traditional beliefs and concepts of Indian tribes.

To be more specific, the Hoopa Tribal Council, through a request of our attorney, asks that our ceremonial leaders be allowed to testify to religious significance, tribal beliefs and the importance that salmon play in cultural survival.

Since that request was not honored, I would humbly take that task upon myself.

During the late 19th century and early 20th century when annihilation of Indian people became impractical and unpopular, the Bureau of Indian Affairs chose another path, cultural genocide through assimilation. The opinion of the BIA at that time was that Native American cultures had nothing good to offer.

And so, in the Hoopa Valley Indian Reservation, Indian children were removed from their families to Government boarding schools and denied the right to learn about this, their own culture and traditional way of life, or to speak their own language.