Mr. McCANN. In other words, you don't have the regular carpenters, painters, and so forth, working in the studio at all?

Mr. BEAUTE. No.

Mr. MCCANN. You only have the IATSE?

Mr. BEAUTE. That is right, sir.

Mr. MCCANN. You are definitely, then, out of the picture with respect to having any conflict of interest between the carpenters' union and the set erectors' union.

Mr. BEAUTE. That is so, and that is the reason I did that, sir.

Mr. MCCANN. Have you anything else to tell us with respect to any other labor-relations problems which you have there, if you have any? Mr. BEAUTE. I haven't any at present. I had some with the IATSE. I definitely objected to certain selections that the IATSE made-one in particular. The head of the local came in and says, "Here is the head of your department." I said, "No; I don't like the color of his tie." I didn't hire him. I was not forced to hire him, but it was tried. I have no labor troubles down there at all now; no.

Mr. MCCANN. In other words, they tried to run the business.
Mr. BEAUTE. One of them did; he is, you know, a business agent.
Mr. MCCANN. Who is head of the IATSE?

Mr. BEAUTE. Mr. Brewer is the representative here. I think Mr. Walsh is the head.

Mr. McCANN. Mr. Walsh is the head. Well, I think that that is enough at this state of your problem. Do you have any other questions, Mr. Chairman?

Mr. KEARNS. Mr. Beaute, is there any strike going on now in Los Angeles around the lots?

Mr. BEAUTE. Yes; there are pickets out.

Mr. KEARNS. There are some pickets out. What are they striking for?

Mr. BEAUTE. I have been trying to find out, sir. I have been trying to find that out, because it is certainly not wages or hours or anything like that. They are well paid, every one of them.

Mr. KEARNS. I was told that for 9 months or something like that they had been doing it.

Mr. BEAUTE. It is a jurisdictional dispute; yes, sir.

Mr. KEARNS. You don't know what the controversy is?

Mr. BEAUTE. Well, the carpenters claim some work and the painters are backing them, and nobody seems to know. In fact, they were ordered back to work.

Mr. KEARNS. Did you hear Mr. Casey this morning?

Mr. BEAUTE. Yes, sir; he is quite correct, that no one can understand these directives. They try, but

Mr. KEARNS. It is your belief, then, that you have a secret direction coming down from the top of the union?

Mr. BEAUTE. I agree with that, sir.

Mr. KEARNS. Do you agree with Mr. Casey that they should be a board appointed that would have

Mr. BEAUTE. With plenty of authority.

Mr. KEARNS. Are you in favor of labor legislation which would try to correct some of these jurisdictional problems?

Mr. BEAUTE. I think that is the only way it can be done except the hard way, and I don't want to see that happen.

Mr. KEARNS. Would you regard the enactment of labor legislationwell, this community has an obligation to run their own affairs as well. Mr. BEAUTE. I don't think the community has such if it is in favor of a general rule all over the country.

Mr. KEARNS. Well, we have been on probes where we have found bombings, and when this complaint was checked back to the local authorities no effort to settle any of those things

Mr. BEAUTE. Oh, I misunderstood the question. I think it should be settled locally.

Mr. KEARNS. I mean we can't do that job in Washington.

Mr. BEAUTE. No; I know not. I misunderstood the question.
Mr. KEARNS. You are in favor of good sound labor legislation?
Mr. BEAUTE. I am.

Mr. KEARNS. You are in favor of legislating to get back to work 20,000 men who belong to the carpenters' union and who are prevented from working because of a jurisdictional strike?

Mr. BEAUTE. Yes, sir; I am.

Mr. MCCANN. That was one of the complaints made by Mr. Casey's testimony, was about men being out who had been 15 and 20 years in the business.

Mr. BEAUTE. They are not fitted to work anywhere else. They are old to compete with the younger people, but they do know the picture business.

Mr. KEARNS. Those boys definitely out of employment here. What would you say, sir, about their finding employment?

Mr. BEAUTE. I don't know. I have no way of saying, sir. I don't know what their rules carry.

Mr. KEARNS. It creates a very serious problem.

Mr. BEAUTE. It does; yes, sir.

Mr. KEARNS. That is all.

Mr. MCCANN. I think that is all, Mr. Beaute. Thank you very much, sir. We will want to call you again when we come back for a complete hearing, sir.

Mr. Darstein.

TESTIMONY OF HERMAN A. DARSTEIN, BUSINESS MANAGER, PINE THOMAS PRODUCTIONS

(The witness was duly sworn.)

Mr. MCCANN. Will you please state your name and your address, sir? Mr. DARSTEIN. Herman A. Darstein, 359 Huntley Drive, Los Angeles 28.

Mr. MCCANN. Will you give us your telephone number so we will have it in the record?

Mr. DARSTEIN. Hillside 9114.

Mr. MCCANN. What position, if any, do you occupy?

Mr. DARSTEIN. I am business manager for Pine Thomas Productions.

Mr. MCCANN. In what work are they engaged?

Mr. DARSTEIN. Motion pictures released through Paramount.

Mr. MCCANN. Released through Paramount?

Mr. DARSTEIN. Yes.

Mr. MCCANN. Do you have at this time a strike on at your plant? Mr. DARSTEIN. Well, in a way, we have; yes.

Mr. MCCANN. Tell us about it.

Mr. DARSTEIN. About 2 months ago, up until 2 months ago, we employed both carpenters and set erectors, at which time we were notified by the IATSE that in the future we cannot employ any CSU members, which means that carpenters, painters, and various other crafts-it was given to us this way, that either we obey the order by the ITASE or they will not service us in the future.

Mr. MCCANN. What do you mean by they will not service you? Mr. DARSTEIN. Well, that is something we tried to find out and couldn't find out.

Mr. MCCANN. What do they do other than giving out the carpentry work?

Mr. DARSTEIN. Well, they have jurisdiction over cameramen, and electricians, and the "grips" and "prop" men.

Mr. MCCANN. In other words, if you don't then obey their orders and get rid of the carpenters, they would call a strike of all these other allied crafts?

Mr. DARSTEIN. Well, they didn't put it that way.

Mr. MCCANN. But that is what you thought they meant?

Mr. DARSTEIN. Well, that is more or less what they meant, apparently, but the idea was, if we were to call for men, the men would come and would refuse to work.

Mr. MCCANN. Did you obey that order?

Mr. DARSTEIN. Well, we finally, after 2 weeks of conference, we finally came to an agreement, due to the fact that we had certain contracts with actors and actresses, that we could produce two more pictures under the old set-up. However, we had to hire-even though we had our own superintendent-we had to hire a superintendent designated by the IATSE.

Mr. MCCANN. In other words, the IATSE ágreed for you to go. on under the old contract because you had certain obligations to certain actors?

Mr. DARSTEIN. That is right.

Mr. MCCANN. But they insisted that you should pay a stand-by superintendent who did not do any work on the lot.

Mr. DARSTEIN. Well, they did not only insist on that, but they almost forced us to hire a new superintendent designated by them, plus two foremen in addition to what we already had on the pay roll, and didn't allow our old superintendent to have any jurisdiction over the building of sets.

Mr. MCCANN. Now, what did that cost you?

Mr. DARSTEIN. Well, the superintendent was getting $225 a week. Mr. MCCANN. You had to employ the new one at $225 a week, you mean?

Mr. DARSTEIN. That is right.

Mr. MCCANN. How many weeks did you have to employ him?
Mr. DARSTEIN. He was with us for approximately 6 weeks.

Mr. MCCANN. The new superintendent that you had to employ?

Mr. DARSTEIN. Yes.

Mr. MCCANN. What about these other men you had to put on in addition to him, the two you mentioned? What did they cost you?

Mr. DARSTEIN. They were making $2.50 an hour. They were on an hourly basis.

Mr. MCCANN. Can you tell me what these extra workmen cost you for that 6 weeks' period?

Mr. DARSTEIN. I would say about $5,000 extra.

Mr. MCCANN. What did they do for you?

Mr. DARSTEIN. Well, they were building the sets. The carpenters would, after the sets were erected, the carpenters would put on the trim, hang the doors.

Mr. MCCANN. In other words, what I am getting at is this: Before that time your carpenters did this work; didn't they?

Mr. DARSTEIN. Yes. In other words, if we had, let us say, 10 carpenters, we could have done the same work with 10 carpenters, instead of having 20 set erectors. That is approximately what I mean.

Mr. MCCANN. And it was both a duplication of the money and a duplication of the effort.

Mr. DARSTEIN. That is right.

Mr. MCCANN. That that imposed on you.

Mr. DARSTEIN. In addition to that, we also had to hire two set directors, one from the so-called CSU union, Conference of Studio Unions, and the other one an IATSE set dresser.

Mr. MCCANN. Does that situation exist today, sir?

Mr. DARSTEIN. That exists today, in that the company that followed us-we were renting at Nassour Studios-and the company that followed us was forced to sign a contract, as I understand it, with the IATSE or it could not operate.

Mr. MCCANN. In other words, were you forced to get rid of the car-, penters entirely?

Mr. DARSTEIN. Well, we have never tried to hire any.

Mr. MCCANN. You have never tried to hire any carpenters?

Mr. DARSTEIN. That is right.

Mr. MCCANN. The result of this is that the carpenters here in Los Angeles are being squeezed out.

Mr. DARSTEIN. That is right.

Mr. MCCANN. And left without any vocation at all, and as I understand it, they are the older members here who have been with the movies for many years; is that correct?

Mr. DARSTEIN. We have men that have been with us here for 5 and 6 years, and in our next picture we will be unable to hire them unless we sign up-that is the IATSE wants us to sign up with them, and if that happens, we can't hire the men that have been working for us during previous years.

Mr. MCCANN. What is the cure for this situation, sir?

Mr. DARSTEIN. Well, I think I agree with Mr. Casey.

Mr. McCANN. You think there will have to be action by Congress forcing arbitration in such jurisdictional matters?

Mr. DARSTEIN. I do.

Mr. McCANN. And you agree with Mr. Casey that Mr. Green has not been able to do anything about it himself, and somebody has got to do it, and it will have to be the Government; is that right?

Mr. DARSTEIN. Apparently not, because this situation has been going on for 2 years now, and over 2 years.

Mr. MCCANN. I wonder how the 20,000 carpenters in this town feel about the present labor relations law which is pending for the President's veto? Do you have any idea?

Mr. DARSTEIN. To my knowledge those that work for us are all in favor of it.

Mr. MCCANN. I see. They would like to have a chance to work for a living.

Mr. DARSTEIN. Only want to work and be left alone. At least, that is what they tell me.

Mr. MCCANN. In other words, they would like to have a chance to earn a living.

Mr. DARSTEIN. That is right.

Mr. MCCANN. And that is what the Congress wants to give the laborers of this country.

Mr. DARSTEIN. Yes.

Mr. McCANN. And that is what the Congress wants to give the statement-but that is what Congress is trying to accomplish through this bill.

Have you any further suggestions?

Mr. DARSTEIN. No; I believe Mr. Casey covered it pretty well.
Mr. MCCANN. Thank you very much, Mr. Darstein.

Mr. KEARNS. Thank you, Mr. Darstein.

Mr. MCCANN. Mr. Fred Steele.

TESTIMONY OF FRED STEELE, STUDIO MANAGER, MONOGRAM PRODUCTIONS, INC.

(The witness was duly sworn.)

Mr. MCCANN. Will you please state your name and your address? Mr. STEELE. Fred Steele, 17736 Kenzie Street, Northridge, Calif. Mr. MCCANN. Your telephone number?

Mr. STEELE. Rugby 6-1873.

Mr. MCCANN. Your business?

Mr. STEELE. I am studio manager, Monogram Productions, Inc. Mr. MCCANN. How long have you held that position?

Mr. STEELE. I was with Mr. Trimcar for some 20 years; then in 1930 he organized Monogram. I have been with him since that, since the inception.

Mr. MCCANN. Total years in moving pictures?

Mr. STEELE. Seventeen.

Mr. MCCANN. Do you have any problems at your studio at this time involving conflicts between the carpenters and the IATSE?

Mr. STEELE. We have had one continuous problem for, say, 9 months. Mr. MCCANN. Will you tell the chairman about that?

Mr. STEELE. Well, it all revolved around this jurisdictional angle, which has been mentioned many times before. I don't think anybody has mentioned this, that the history of the thing is that, in December 1945, I believe the A. F. of L., three wise men, as we refer to them, handed down a directive which awarded certain work to certain crafts and so forth. Then the battle started. Solomon himself could not interpret that, I believe, but we are supposed to. Until 1946 they let us alone. They moved in on the majors first. And then in August of 1946, the hatchet man came to us and said, "This is it. From now on we want set erectors." So we said to him he could choose the people and we will take them; so we have set erectors. Then our troubles started.