Mr. FISHMAN. The past few years I have been virtually not engaged. Prior to that I was in the agency business representing some of the biggest orchestras in the country.

Mr. MCCANN. Will you tell when you started in the business and how long you continued in that business, sir, before you ceased to operate?

Mr. FISHMAN. Since approximately 1922.

Mr. MCCANN. That is when you went in that business?

Mr. FISHMAN. Yes.

Mr. MCCANN. And during the first years of your business, what bands and orchestras have you represented, if you will just be brief with it.

Mr. FISHMAN. I go back as far as the beginning of Whiteman, Ted Lewis, Ben Bernie, Kay Kyser, Vincent Lopez, Waring's Pennsylvanians, and many, many others, nearly all of them.

Mr. MCCANN. I will hand you this and ask you to please identify it. Mr. FISHMAN. This is my license No. 3557 issued to me by the American Federation of Musicians on November 10, 1944.

Mr. MCCANN. What does that give you a right to do, or what did it give you a right to do?

Mr. FISHMAN. It gave me the right to represent orchestras and musicians.

Mr. MCCANN. Is that license in effect today?

Mr. FISHMAN. No.

Mr. MCCANN. Why?

Mr. FISHMAN. I signed an orchestra under the rights or privileges granted me by this contract by the name of Sully Mason.

Mr. MCCANN. Is that a colored orchestra?

Mr. FISHMAN. White orchestra.

Mr. MCCANN. Go ahead.

Mr. FISHMAN. And I had them on a tour for some months outside of this jurisdiction and not within the jurisdiction of this local and not within the control of this local on a traveling basis.

Mr. MCCANN. Yes; proceed.

Mr. FISHMAN. And the boy was a former instrumentalist with Kay Kyser, and after a lot of promotion and a lot of work, very hard work with him, developed him to the point where he was grossing approximately anywhere from $4,000 to $5,000 a week or thereabouts, and out of a clear sky I get a call down to the local from Mr. MacQuarrie telling me that we owed this lad some money, so I said that was right, we did, and we checked our records. Mason never came in to pick up the check, so I sent the thousand dollars, a cashier's check, to the treasurer of this local, and then there was a little difference of a couple of hundred dollars due. So the thing wrangled around, and I gathered they were trying to recommend something, some way to get this contract released, so I talked to MacQuarrie about it, and he said, "Now, look, if you don't release this we are going to cancel your license."

I said, "You fellows can't do that. You have no jurisdiction. This is a national matter. I insist that the matter be handled by the national."

So I finally wound up with "Spike" Wallace, the president, in a meeting, and they said, "Well, you bring your statement sheets down,

and we feel that you owe six claims. You bring your statements down and what not and let's look into this thing."

So I did. I sent all my registers down, I have them here, and without any hearing, without any examination before the board, without any word whatever, they just said, "You owe $700 and you have to put that up in escrow or that is it."

Well, I said, "Now, look, this isn't Germany, and this isn't Russia, or some of those countries. I am entitled to a hearing before the executive board, and be sure it is an actual executive board. If I owe Mr. Mason any money, let him file a claim with me in the regular way and I will also produce evidence that I am not indebted to him, or if there is a report showing that money might be owing, they can always take my license." I did that on the basis of article XVI of my license which stated:

Any default, dispute, controversy, or difference arising between the licensee and the federation, any local or any member or members of the federation, shall be submitted to, and determined by the international executive board of the federation, and the determination of said board concerning the matters enumerated above shall be conclusive, final, and binding on all connected therewith. Then in article XVII it says:

In the event of any violation of the terms hereof by the licensee, and the federation shall have determined that such violation occurred, each and every member of the federation shall thereby and thereupon be deemed released and discharged of and from any and all engagements and contracts with the licensee, and of and from any and all claims, of every kind and nature, by the licensee, against any member of the federation.

Mr. MCCANN. Right there I want to ask you if your license was taken from you.

Mr. FISHMAN. Right, but let me give you this bit: I happened to be talking long distance to Yakima, Wash., about 10 days before I knew anything about this, while I thought I was still in negotiation with the local here, and a man up there named R. J. Pardeen, I think his name is just 1 minute, I have it right there-well, there is a copy of that letter, or that wire from Mr. R. J. Paradis is his name, informing me on or about August 31, 1945, that he received a wire from "Spike" Wallace in response to a wire of inquiry that he made at this local regarding me that they had recommended the cancellation of my license to the international, and that they had every reason to believe that Mr. Petrillo would grant that cancellation. So

Mr. MCCANN. Have you got a copy of that wire?

Mr. FISHMAN. No; Mr. R. J. Paradis has all the records, but the local, I am sure, will have the wire.

Mr. MCCANN. Do you have the wire in your local files?

Mr. EMME. You mean to Paradis?

Mr. MCCANN. The one sent to Paradis.

Mr. FISHMAN. They have a copy there. It can be

the Western Union.

Mr. MCCANN. It is rather difficult to get them.
Mr. FISHMAN. I know Mr. Paradis told me he h

of it, but I don't have the original.

Mr. MCCANN. All right.

Mr. FISHMAN. The next thing I knew of it w federation on August 27, 1945, telling me that i was in effect. I didn't have any chance to defend

Mr. MCCANN. What date was that?

Mr. FISHMAN. August 27, 1945.

Mr. MCCANN. August 27, 1945, that it was canceled?

Mr. FISHMAN. Yes; was canceled. They just wrote me a letter and said it is hereby terminated. Incidentally, here is the acknowledgment from the federation of the Sully Mason contract, showing that it was strictly a federation matter and not a local matter. Here is a letter they sent to one of my orchestras telling them not to do business with me, that my license had been terminated.

Mr. MCCANN. Just a minute, please. I call your attention to a copy of Overture, May 1947 Overture, and on page 33 appears the name "Ed Fishman."

Mr. FISHMAN. That is right.

Mr. MCCANN. Under "Bookers, do not perform for or with." Is that you?

Mr. FISHMAN. That is me.

Mr. MCCANN. Now, I hand you a photostat and I will ask you if this is a true and correct copy of your license from the American Federation of Musicians?

Mr. FISHMAN. That is so.

Mr. MCCANN. And that was issued to you on the 10th day of November 1944?

Mr. FISHMAN. That is right.

Mr. MCCANN. And that is the one that was canceled by the American Federation of Musicians?

Mr. FISHMAN. That is so.

Mr. MCCANN. Mr. Chairman, I offer this in evidence as exhibit 3 for reproduction.

Mr. KEARNS. Any objection?

(The document above referred to is as follows:)

This license shall be deemed an agreement by and between the Federation and the Licensee, authorizing the Licensee to be employed by and act as agent, manager, or representative for members of the Federation (hereinafter called members) in all cases in which the engagement or employment of such members covers services to be rendered.

The license must be signed by the Licensee, or in the case of a firm or corporation by the authorized officers with the corporate seal attached to the license in case the Licensee is a corporation.

This license is subject to, and limited by, the following terms and conditions: First. The Licensee shall comply with all of the laws, ordinances and requirements of the different localities applying to such agencies.

Second. Within the limitations above-mentioned, this license shall cover every phase of musical employment, permanent or otherwise.

Third. The Licensee shall not act for any musician, including or involving any musical performance, who is not a member in good standing of the Federation.

66874-47-vol. 19

Fourth. This license (which is not exclusive) is personal to the Licensee, shall not be transferable, and no person, firm, or corporation other than the one named therein shall be entitled to any advantage therefrom.

Fifth. All contracts between the Licensee and Members shall, at all times, be subject to, and bound by, the present and future provisions of the constitution, bylaws, rules, regulations, and resolutions of the Federation and of all locals thereof, affected thereby, and all such contracts shall contain the following stipulation:

"The present and future provisions of the constitution, bylaws, rules, regulations, and resolutions of the Federation and its locals affected hereby, apply to, and shall govern, this contract, and any stipulations in conflict therewith shall be null and void."

Sixth. The Licensee will not procure any contract or engagement for any member, unless the same shall contain the following:

"As the musicians engaged under the stipulations of this contract are members of the American Federation of Musicians, nothing in this contract shall ever be so construed as to interfere with any obligations which they may owe to the American Federation of Musicians by reason of their prior obligation to the American Federation of Musicians as members thereof."

Seventh. The obligations of members to the Federation and to its locals are in nowise to be changed or affected by this license or by any contract or engagement, and such members shall, at all times, remain subject and be amenable to such Federation and its locals, the constitution, bylaws, rules, orders, resolutions, and regulations thereof.

Eighth. The Licensee will not solicit or permit any engagement or employment of members, except strictly in conformity with the rules and wage scales of the Federation and its locals.

Ninth. The Licensee is not to receive, or be entitled to, any commission or compensation, in any form, in advance and no commission or compensation is to become due or be paid, in any form, at any time before the members concerned receive, in full, payment for their services. In no event, and at no time, shall commissions or compensation of any Licensee, agent, or anyone associated or connected with them, singly or collectively, have the effect, directly or indirectly, to reduce the net compensation or pay of any member for his services to less than the minimum scale of pay provided by the Federation of its locals. The Licensee shall receive no commission or compensation for, or in connection with, employment or engagements at such minimum wage scale, and no deferred commission arrangement, bonus, gratuity, or other subterfuge should be permitted to circumvent these provisions.

Tenth. The Federation will not countenance any breach by the Licensee or members of any contract conforming to the Federation and local laws and rules ; and will use its best efforts to enforce valid claims by Licensees against members. Eleventh. The Licensee is obligated to furnish to the employer the band or orchestra for which he has contracted with him, and none other.

Twelfth. The Licensee will keep the Federation informed and advised of all contracts, both oral and in writing, made by or for members; will submit, upon demand, any and all written contracts to the Federation for its inspection and examination; and will furnish, upon such demand, full details and particulars of any and all such contracts not in writing.

Thirteeth. This license may be terminated by either party at any time. Such termination shall not affect any then existing contracts or obligations properly created thereunder, during the existence hereof, except that no such obligation or contract shall have the effect of continuing the agency or other such license. Such right of termination of this license shall be absolute at all times, without cause or reason. In the event of the termination of this license, at any time, for any reason, such license represented by this certificate shall be returned to the Federation, and canceled.

Fourteenth. The provisions hereof shall be deemed included in, and part of, any and all agreements between the Licensee and Federation members; and acceptance of this license shall constitute a modification of all existing agreements between the Licensee and such members, to accord with the terms hereof.

Fifteenth. All member are entitled to equal rights and recognition by employers and Licensee, and no discrimination, of any kind or nature, shall be permitted against members. No bonuses, rebates, concessions, favors or inducements, of any kind or nature, to any Licensee, or employer, or anyone else, shall directly or indirectly be given, offered, or permitted by anyone, in any form or manner, with the intention or effect of preferring any one member, or group of

members, over others. The purpose hereof is to enable all members to compete with one another, on equal terms.

Sixteenth. Any default, dispute, controversy, or difference arising between the Licensee and the Federation, any local, or any member or members of the Federation, shall be submitted to, and determined by the international executive board of the Federation, and the determination of said board concerning the matters enumerated above shall be conclusive, final, and binding on all connected therewith.

Seventeenth. In the event of any violation of the terms hereof by the Licensee, and the Federation shall have determined that such violation occurred, each and every member of the Federation shall thereby and thereupon be deemed released and discharged of and from any and all engagements and contracts with the Licensee, and of and from any and all claims, of every kind and nature, by the Licensee, against any member of the Federation.

Eighteenth. This license is the property of the American Federation of Musicians and shall continue and remain in effect until terminated in accordance with clause Thirteen hereof.

Nineteenth. Licensee will not require any employer to book musicians through his agency as a condition for access to radio or to the use of any radio line, and will not advise any employer that any access to radio or to the use of a radio line will be denied or refused unless the facilities of such Licensee as a booker are used to procure the services of musicians.

Twentieth. On all single engagements where it appears that the sponsor or employer is not regularly engaged in the business of employing musicians, the representative or booking agent shall be required to warrant or guarantee the price of the engagement, which must never be less than the union scale plus transportation.

Twenty-first. Licensee shall include in all contracts with employers for the services of musicians at public functions a proviso that the business agent of a local in whose jurisdiction the engagement is played must have access to the function, for the purpose of conferring with the musicians playing at same. Dated at New York, N. Y., this 10th day of November, 1944.

AMERICAN FEDERATION OF MUSICIANS,
By [s] JAMES C. PETRILLO, Licensor.

ED FISHMAN (L. S.)

Address, 6425 Hollywood Blvd., Hollywood 28, Calif. Mr. MCCANN. I will hand you this letter of August 27, 1945, Mr. Fishman, and ask you to state where you got that-from whom you got that letter.

Mr. FISHMAN. James C. Petrillo, president-no, Saunders King, the orchestra leader, gave me this letter and told me that he couldn't do any business with me after he had received this and that ceased my contract, after I had spent about $10,000 building him up, so that contract went to nothing.

Mr. MCCANN. This is a letter which you say you received from Mr. King?

Mr. FISHMAN. Yes; he gave me that.

Mr. MCCANN. I will read in the record this letter dated August 27, 1945. It is on the stationery of the American Federation of Musicians of the United States and Canada, office of the president, 570 Lexington Avenue, New York, N. Y. Addressed to Mr. Saunders King, care of Paul Schreibeman, Warner Bros. Theater Building, Hollywood, Calif.

DEAR SIR AND BROTHER: This is to advise you that the American Federation of Musicians has today canceled license No. 3557 held by Edward I. Fishman. In accordance with the above, insofar as the American Federation of Musicians is concerned, your management contract with Edward I. Fishman is terminated, inasmuch as no member of the federation is permitted to do business with a nonlicensed agent of the federation.

Fraternally yours,

JAMES C. PETRILLO, President.