Mr. Fishman, were you ever given a hearing by the executive board? Mr. FISHMAN. No; I tried to get them on the phone; I tried to talk to them; I tried to reach "Spike" Wallace to ask him to intercede for me, but nothing happened until along on June 18, 1946. Mr. MCCANN. What effect did the cancellation of the license have upon your business in that period? Mr. FISHMAN. Well, it broke me completely-put me out of business-because I had to start another business, start all over again, and the result of a nervous breakdown and heart attack that I had to be in a hospital last January, and they kept me there until April, and I am still on about a 25-percent-of-normal schedule. Mr. MCCANN. Now, Mr. Fishman, what I want to get understood here is, you say since 1922, approximately, you have been operating with musicians as a booking agent. Mr. FISHMAN. That is right. Mr. MCCANN. And you have been denied the right since approximately August 27, 1945, to continue with your professional work? Mr. FISHMAN. That is right, sir. Mr. MCCANN. And you have not as yet been given a hearing by the executive board on the propriety of taking away your license? Mr. FISHMAN. That is right; and I also, if I may say, when I was in New York in June of this year-June of 1946-I spent 4 days there trying to get Mr. Petrillo or his assistant to see me, and they refused to see me. I finally wired them-I have the wires here-copies of them certified by Western Union-and they would not see me, give me an appointment, and I finally wound up going Mr. MCCANN. Have you the wire to Petrillo? Mr. FISHMAN. Yes. Mr. MCCANN. Have you the answer to that wire? Mr. FISHMAN. No. The wire which I sent him, which I have certified by the Mr. KEARNS. But the wire answering you; did he send a wire to you? Mr. FISHMAN. No. Mr. KEARNS. He ignored the wire? Mr. FISHMAN. Completely. He has ignored everything I have sent, together with registered letters. Here is a Western Union certificate that I sent a wire June 18. Mr. MCCANN. Mr. Chairman, I will just read this into the record. Under date of June 18, 1946: JAMES C. PETRILLO, President, American Federation of Musicians, 570 Lexington Avenue, New York City. DEAR MR. PETRILLO: For months have tried in vain to get response from your office to my mail, wires, and phone calls. Have gone to great sacrifice to make trip of over 3,000 miles to see you or Mr. Riccardi. In past 2 days have not received any encouragement from your office as to when I may have interview. Matter is paramount to me since it is and has been my living for more than 20 years. Respectfully request interview today or early tomorrow. Please have your office phone Vanderbilt 60451 and leave word. Very truly yours, ED FISHMAN. Mr. Chairman, I don't think I want to take it out of this file. If that is permissible, we will just let that go. Mr. FISHMAN. There was one thing I do want to add, sir: After that I sent at the same time another wire to Rex Riccardi, American Federation of Musicians, 570 Lexington Avenue, New York City, N. Y., on June 18, 1946, which was precisely the same. Further, that I say: Mr. Riccardi telephoned your office yesterday and today for an appointment. So far no encouragement or wire. I cannot lay around here. I want some courtesy from you in order to get my situation to Mr. Petrillo and get a fair trial. I am not asking for that. All I want is a few minutes to go over my situation in fairness; and never having received one single reply to my mail, phones, or wires, now that I have come over 3,000 miles, I feel that is the least that can be done. Please leave word at Vanderbilt 60401 or 61212 today when you can see me. Yours, Mr. MCCANN. Did you get any response to that? ED FISHMAN. Mr. FISHMAN. No; after waiting around there a few days I tried to phone and told the secretary that I would not leave there under any circumstances until I saw either Mr. Petrillo or Mr. Riccardi. So Mr. Riccardi finally saw me and I discussed the situation and he said, "Well, now, we didn't understand it that way." He says, "That is a little different." So he instructed me to return to Los Angeles and go before the board and that they would reinstate me. I came back and went before the board and they supposedly cleared me and notified Petrillo's office that it was O. K. for me to proceed; that my license was then all right. In the meantime I had had a show on tour. I couldn't have the musicians, they denied me that privilege, no federation member was allowed to work for me, so I got up a colored show and put it together and started working down through the South, and out through the West, and out through the East, Philadelphia, and up that way, and I took the show out on tour under the AGVA, that is the American Guild of Variety Artists-no connection whatever with the American Federation of Musicians-and I had the show out for 29 days, and the racial situation was not very healthy in the South for those boys and they were not accustomed to some of the situations they had to meet with, so they canceled the tour without any notice, and the result was that a lot of the promoters started to sue me personally. I failed to state that this tour was sponsored by Capital Attractions, Inc., which I am interested in, not myself personally. The show was handled by Ben Carter, a gentleman by the name of Ben Carter. I personally had no responsibility or any connection financially with this show whatever. The show flopped with some 25 or 30 dates remaining unplayed at that point. Mr. MCCANN. Did it go to Dallas, Tex.? Mr. FISHMAN. It flopped in Austin, Tex. That was the last date. I don't have that wire here, but it is in the file. I replied to a letter from Mr. Riccardi shortly after I was cleared, I recall, telling me I could not proceed to book and that he would not give any consideration to the reinstatement of my license, after I was already told that it was O. K., so I wrote him back. I said I have no knowledge of all these claims or these contracts yes or no, whether they are in the status of lawsuits or in the status of AGVA, and I would like to have my license reinstated. He says, "You know it is the business of the musicians," he says, "some musicians worked in that show," when I had nothing to do with any of it. That was all a matter that had to be handled by AGVA, and I so understood from the president of the national union. The AGVA board went into the matter and as yet they haven't gotten the thing straightened out. Last January I went to the hospital and stayed in there, as I said, 4 months, and I haven't gotten anywhere at all up to this point. Now, what I tried to do a few weeks ago was I started writing to Mr. Petrillo again by registered mail, to Mr. Riccardi by registered mail, and to Mr. Cluesman by registered mail. At the convention in Detroit I asked for permission to come before the international board so that they could have an opportunity to find out the facts about my situation. I felt this, that I had been deprived of a living and that I certainly was entitled to have a hearing before my license was taken away. The first time that the local did any writing whatever it was in my behalf, which is proven by the fact that they reinstated me, and I believe if I ever had a right to come before the board and to give my views that I could get the thing straightened out. Nothing has happened. Mr. MCCANN. In other words, the net result of your experience is this, that you have lost the job that you have been engaged in for the last generation and your line of work has been taken away from you by the A. F. of M.? Mr. FISHMAN. That is right. Mr. MCCANN. That is all. Mr. FISHMAN. You see, their agents, Mr. McCann, hold pretty good salaries, and they tell the people that we are bum and that they will take my license away, and that hurt me. Mr. MCCANN. That is all from you now. I want to ask if you have some Mr. KEARNS. Mr. Counsel, just a minute, please. What do you think in your own mind caused you to have all this action taken against you? I mean, do you recall any incident to make them any incident that might have happened to vex the fellows so that your business was taken away from you, so to speak? Mr. FISHMAN. Yes; I think that I was a little hot-headed at the way this thing came up and I told MacQuarrie that he or Mr. Wallace or the union would not take my license from me. I got very bitter about it, because it was like somebody putting a pistol in my belly and shooting. Mr. KEARNS. Before the Mason affair, during your tenure of power and when you were acting as agent for orchestras, had you had any difficulty at all with them? Mr. FISHMAN. Yes; I have had difficulty. Mr. KEARNS. Did you have a lot? Mr. FISHMAN. Yes; quite a lot. Mr. KEARNS. Were they wrong, or were you wrong? Mr. FISHMAN. I would say, that, in my opinion, they were wrong; in their opinion, I was wrong; but it always worked out all the time, each time I said I was wrong, whether I was wrong or not, rather than go through this thing. I mean, it is just like you get a traffic ticket or half a dozen traffic tickets, instead of going to court and standing up and saying, "Well, I am not guilty" I give that to the auto club and I send a check for whatever the fine is and say "I am guilty," and the record appears that I am guilty, perhaps, in those particular situations, but because I have had arguments with them or differences of opinion, I don't think that would make me wrong all the time. Mr. KEARNS. It is your statement, then, that your business has been wiped out and your earnings taken from you, all without a proper hearing? Mr. FISHMAN. I haven't had a hearing to this day. I haven't had a chance to defend myself to this day. Mr. KEARNS. That is all. I would like to have him report back here tomorrow, counsel, if he will. Mr. MCCANN. Before he leaves the stand, I want to ask him are there any letters that you want to leave? Mr. KEARNS. Well, I think I want to call Mr. MacQuarrie. Mr. FISHMAN. The only thing, just to add one thing more, about the registered letters that I sent to Mr. "Spike" Wallace stipulating that MacQuarrie told me that my license would be taken from me 2 weeks before I ever got the license revoked, and also that Mr. Wallace told me unless I released them maybe my license would be revoked. I answered that and confirmed that by registered mail, and I also sent copies of it to Mr. Petrillo's office at the same time, so that there is a record by registered mail of those situations. Mr. KEARNS. All right. That is all right. Mr. MCCANN. That is all at this time. come back in the morning at 10 o'clock. I would like to have you FURTHER TESTIMONY OF LEE MacQUARRIE—Recalled (The witness was previously duly sworn.) Mr. KEARNS. What I would like to have you tell me, Mr. MacQuarrie, under oath, could you enlighten me as to what incidents led up to the treatment of Mr. Fishman, and also do you have any authority in your capacity with the union to say why this man, as a licensee of orchestras, had the privilege of booking denied him without a hearing? I would like to hear your side of it now. Incidentally, you were on this case right through, were you? Mr. MACQUARRIE. I was not on at the start, Mr. Chairman. Mr. KEARNS. Just a minute. I have this witness here now. Mr. MACQUARRIE. I believe going back a couple of years I might be a little bit hazy as to some of the details. I would like, if possible, for Mr. te Groen to correct me on it, because if I remember correctly, I can't state with certainty I did call Johnny up in July. I have a letter here of July 17, which was written to John te Groen, Musicians Mutual Protective Association, Los Angeles, Calif.: DEAR JOHNNY: Something screwy is going on and I have an idea what it is all about, and have therefore tried to reach you on the telephone regarding same. I understand Sully Mason returned to the city late Saturday night and through an ex-bookkeeper of mine is trying to induce a breach of contract with me. I am not worried about that phase of the deal; what I want is Mason to come in here and go over his account so that any difference due him, if any, can be paid over to him. Upon phoning his residence today they informed me he is out of the city, whereabouts unknown, so I would like to verify his absence and the fact that his settlement is awaiting him so that if any question comes up later I cannot be accused of withholding or stalling same. In the meantime I will keep trying to reach you. Kindest regards and thanks, Sincerely yours, EDWARD I. FISHMAN. Mr. KEARNS. Mr. Fishman got the impression, that is according to his testimony here, that the Mason case was all settled. Mr. MACQUARRIE. No; the Mason case was not settled, according to my records. Mr. KEARNS. Well, what was happening on it, then? Mr. MACQUARRIE. I don't know just exactly whate date it is; however, I have a statement here from Mr. Fishman in regard to some of the expenses that Sully Mason ran up. It seems to me, if I remember correctly, there was a discrepancy over how much money Sully Mason had coming from Fishman at the time. Mr. KEARNS. You mentioned in your testimony yesterday something about $600. Mr. MACQUARRIE. That is what I believe. Mr. KEARNS. That is what you think? Mr. MACQUARRIE. There was a discrepancy of the amount of money that Sully Mason had coming from the agency after he returned to the city, and I believe-well it is here. I have the whole list of them. Mr. KEARNS. That could be put in the record. What I am trying to get at, were there other cases under this man's management where there were claims of orchestra leaders not being paid, at this particular time? Mr. MACQUARRIE. Not during this period, but any conditions we had he has ironed out, except always, their method of doing business I had the impression that he was an unreliable businessman, operating his own business in not a good way. Mr. KEARNS. What was your objection to functioning in trying to clear this matter up? Mr. MACQUARRIE. Mr. Chairman, if I can go back to November 10, 1944, I have a copy of a letter here to Mr. F. D. Pendelton, secretary of local 47: DEAR SIR AND BROTHER: This will acknowledge receipt of your letter of October 12, and in accordance with your recommendation we are today forwarding license No. 3557 to Ed. Fishman, of Hollywood. Fraternally yours, JAMES C. PETRILLO, President. Then another one of November 27, 1944, to Frank Pendelton: DEAR SIR AND BROTHER: This is to advise that we have today terminated license No. 3557 held by Ed. Fishman, Hollywood, and same is no longer in effect. Fraternally yours, Mr. KEARNS. Let me see that. JAMES C. PETRILLO, President. Mr. MACQUARRIE. This is when it was given to him the first time, according to my report, I believe. Under date of February 7, 1945, there is another letter addressed to Mr. Frank D. Pendelton: DEAR SIR AND BROTHER: This is to advise that Ed. Fishman has liquidated his indebtedness to Tommy Reynolds and we have restored license No. 3557 held by him, and same is once again in full force and effect. Fraternally yours, JAMES C. PETRILLO, President. Mr. KEARNS. Where is Reynolds? Is he in town? Mr. MACQUARRIE. I don't quite remember the Reynolds case. Mr. KEARNS. Well, what do you know, yourself, that you can tell me about this affair? It seems quite involved, and there seems to be a lot of hush-hush about it. |