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Mr. MACQUARRIE. As far as I can remember, I don't know whetherI haven't got anything here to certify that the international or "Spike" Wallace heard this case, or not. However, I know that Mr. Fishman and Sully Mason have been up in the office, that is, I sat in on some of the negotiations, and it seems to me that there was $606.11 that Mason claimed that he had coming from Mr. Fishman, and Mr. Fishman claimed otherwise, something else. Now, at one particular time, if I remember correctly, Mr. Wallace, I know, tried to get the thing straightened around through Mr. Mason's requesting that if Mr. Fishman would cancel his managerial contract with Fishman he would forget about the $606 and go on and everything would be satisfied, because I believe at that time $1,363, the amount in dispute, was deposited by Fishman and with Mr. Fishman's consent was released to Sully Mason.

Mr. KEARNS. How long have you known Mr. Fishman?

Mr. MAC QUARRIE. Mr. Fishman-I believe I met Mr. Fishman when he was with William Morris.

Mr. KEARNS. About how long ago?

Mr. MACQUARRIE. I don't know what year that would be.

Mr. KEARNS. How many years, approximately; 10 years?

Mr. MACQUARRIE. Oh, not that long. Five, maybe. I wouldn't be definite, for I don't know.

Mr. KEARNS. Is he a man of integrity?
Mr. MACQUARRIE. I beg your pardon.
Mr. KEARNS. Is he a man of integrity?

Mr. MACQUARRIE. I never had much business dealings with him until this particular Sully Mason case.

Mr. KEARNS. Well, had Mr. Wallace and he been at odds?

Mr. MACQUARRIE. Not that I know of.

Mr. KEARNS. What are the amounts which he wiped out, then? Mr. MACQUARRIE. Well, in the file here I have a wire sent to James C. Petrillo:

Regarding your wire, $1,363.50 amount not in dispute deposited by Fishman. With Fishman's consent the same was released to Sully Mason. $606.11 still in dispute has not been deposited, although we ordered Fishman to deposit same with us by Monday August 20, at 3 p. m. This money to be held in escrow pending decision international board. Mason agreed to accept $1,363.50 and a release of his contract with Fishman agency to close matter. Fishman refused compromise. For his failure to show good faith in this matter we recommend his license be revoked. Letter follows.

Mr. MCCANN. Mr. Chairman, may I ask just one question before he leaves the stand, if you will permit me to?

Mr. KEARNS. You may; yes.

Mr. MCCANN. I want to ask you, was that carrying out the provisions of his license, when he recommended the cancellation of that without giving him a hearing?

Mr. MACQUARRIE. I really can't say as certain here whether or not Mr. Wallace was given the privilege of hearing this case here. I am a little bit hazy on that subject.

Mr. KEARNS. We will work that out. He answered that for you. Mr. MCCANN. He says he doesn't know.

Mr. MACQUARRIE. I will get rid of that haze before tomorrow

We

are going to have to look up something.

Mr. KEARNS. You will have an opportunity.

FURTHER TESTIMONY OF ED FISHMAN-Recalled

(The witness was previously duly sworn.)

Mr. KEARNS. I am sorry I just didn't get clearly your financial deal with Mr. Mason. Did you pay the fellow, or didn't you?

Mr. FISHMAN. Well, yes. I deposited $1,363 with the local before we could find Mason, because I knew that the whole thing was a maneuver to break the contract. There wasn't any question of money. I got receipts that I turned over to them to show that the man didn't have that amount of money coming, and they ignored that completely. Mr. KEARNS. All right, that is your business about them ignoring it. You put the money up.

Mr. FISHMAN. I put up $1,363 that he had coming, and they tied that money up in the union.

Mr. KEARNS. Did Mason ever get his money?

Mr. FISHMAN. Yes; the union says, "Do you have any objections if we pay him this money now? You can hold it up for 6 months, you know, if you want to, until this thing is heard."

I says, "No objection, he is entitled to it, he has got it coming, it is his, give it to him," and they released the money and paid him the money, and I knew, I had the tip from Yakima, Wash., but when we tried to get those people to the office down there I couldn't get them when they called me, but it all tends to show the things that I have done in the past to cooperate. I want to say for Mr. MacQuarrie's benefit and for the record that there was never a claim of any kind or nature in this local against me in the history of my being on the coast in nearly 10 years.

Mr. KEARNS. Well, that is what I wanted to find out. To your knowledge, you owe nobody any money that has ever had a contract with you?

Mr. FISHMAN. Up to that time, since this contract was opened. Mr. KEARNS. And that money was put up in escrow?

Mr. FISHMAN. Yes.

Mr. KEARNS. Since that time?

Mr. FISHMAN. Well, I have no booking license since that time, and we have fallen behind here and there.

Mr. KEARNS. I want you back in the morning. That will be all for now.

By the way, Mr. MacQuarrie, in the morning-I would like to have you sleep over this thing a little bit tonight and see if you can't get your chronological developments and your records clear so that we can understand his dealings with the American Federation of Musicians; also I would like to have you find out from Mr. Wallace for me tonight, because I don't know how his health will be in the morning, why this thing was handled the way it was. I would like to have it cleared up.

Mr. MACQUARRIE. That leaves me in too hot company. I will have the information and the case files.

Mr. MCCANN. Mr. Chairman, I request for this purpose that Mr. Wallace should be here in the morning.

Mr. KEARNS. I would rather wait and find out his physical condition in the morning. The gentleman is sick and I want to respect it to every degree.

Mr. MCCANN. He was supposed to produce for us this morning a doctor's certificate. I would like to have him here or else have that doctor's certificate in the morning, if that is agreeable to you, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. KEARNS. Tomorrow morning I want to follow through with this case, if we can get some light on it. We will convene at 9:30 a. m. in the morning, so as to get the work done.

(Whereupon, at 5 o'clock, a recess was taken until 9:30 a. m., the following day, Thursday, June 19, 1947.)

INVESTIGATION OF JAMES C. PETRILLO, THE AMERICAN

FEDERATION OF MUSICIANS, ET AL.

THURSDAY, JUNE 19, 1947

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES,

SPECIAL SUBCOMMITTEE OF THE

COMMITTEE ON EDUCATION AND LABOR,

Los Angeles, Calif.

The subcommitte met at 9:30 a. m., pursuant to adjournment, the Honorable Carroll D. Kearns (chairman of the subcommittee) presiding.

Present also: Irving G. McCann, general counsel to the committee, and Otto J. Emme, appearing for the Musicians Mutual Protective Association, Local 47, A. F. of M.

Mr. KEARNS. The hearing will now come to order.

Mr. MCCANN. I believe that we had some unfinished business, Mr. Chairman, and you wished Mr. MacQuarrie to explain some matters. Mr. KEARNS. That is right.

Mr. MCCANN. Mr. MacQuarrie, if you will take the stand.

FURTHER TESTIMONY OF LEE MacQUARRIE- -Recalled

(The witness was previously duly sworn.)

Mr. KEARNS. For the record, Mr. MacQuarrie, you have been sworn? Mr. MACQUARRIE. Yes, sir.

Mr. KEARNS. Mr. Counsel.

Mr. MCCANN. Yesterday afternoon, as we were closing, the chairman asked you to please clarify the reasons, if any, that you had for failing to give Mr. Ed Fishman a hearing before your board. Would you be so kind as to do that at this time?

Mr. KEARNS. Before you start on that I want to clarify this money business here, what was in escrow, what was drawn by Mr. Mason, and establish, Mr. Counsel, whether or not Mr. Fishman still owes money to Mr. Mason, or, in other words, did not fulfill his obligations as a booker.

Mr. MCCANN. Why not just refer the two questions to him and let him proceed?

Mr. MACQUARRIE. Can I proceed?

Mr. MCCANN. Yes.

Mr. MACQUARRIE. I have a recapitulation here of the indebtedness between Sully Mason and Mr. Fishman. At the bottom of the page it says "Total advances to Sully Mason $1,989 and balance due Mr. Mason"-this is Mr. Mason's account-"balance due Sully Mason $1.969.66." I have the same story in here according to Mr. Fishman's

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