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Room 229, FEDERAL BUILDING, Los Angeles, Calif., Tuesday, June 17, 1947,2: 45 o'clock p. m. Mr. KEARNS. The hearing will now be in order.

This investigation and hearing has been ordered by Hon. Fred A. Hartley, Jr., chairman of the Committee on Education and Labor of the House of Representatives.

Between February 5 and March 15, 1947, the Committee on Education and Labor held hearings on pending legislation in Washington. The purpose of these hearings was to determine what, if any, legislation should be passed with respect to labor relations by the Eightieth Congress.

On March 15, 1947, Mr. Earl Carroll of Hollywood appeared before our committee to present his testimony with respect to "featherbedding” practices which were being engaged in by his employees who were members of the American Federation of Musicians.

In his statement to the committee he said: Unless some legislation is passed we shall be forced to continue paying these three musicians as long as we remain in business. Furthermore, now that I have brought this condition to the attention of Congress, reprisals will be in order.

Mr. Petrillo, if the normal course is taken, will see that my punishment is not punitive. There is no law to prevent him (Petrillo) from adding 3 more musicians, 6 more, or even 60, and to continue in business I must comply or close.

This is a statement of Mr. Carroll before the committee:

I believe some legislation should be adopted that precluded any union leader from forcing any employer to hire more labor than he really needs. I believe it should be unlawful for any union by force or by intimidation to coerce or compel anyone to employ any person or persons in excess of the number of employees needed by the employer to perform actual services.

Thereafter Mr. Carroll returned to Hollywood and was subjected to two strikes. He reported the facts to Mr. Hartley, who directed that I should proceed to Los Angeles to ascertain whether or not the American Federation of Musicians or any of its members have been guilty of acts of reprisal intended to intimidate Mr. Carroll because of the fact that he testified before the Committee on Education and Labor.

It is the position of Mr. Hartley, chairman of the Committee on Education and Labor, that anyone who seeks to punish a witness who has the courage to appear before a congressional committee to make legislative suggestions is guilty of contempt of the Congress. That, in short, is the reason for this investigation and hearing.

Other complaints have been made to Mr. Hartley which indicate a possibility that certain labor leaders and unions in this area may have departed from the legitimate activities of such leaders and unions and may be engaged in labor rackets rather than collective bargaining in this area.

The chairman has directed me to conduct a brief investigation concerning these complaints, with the idea that later in the year a substantial subcommittee will be sent to Los Angeles to investigate these complaints more fully and to conduct complete hearings thereon.

This is not a witch hunt. We are seeking facts to determine, first, whether there has been any contempt of the Congress, and second, whether or not there are those in this locality who are engaged in labor rackets which may require new legislation by the Congress.

Now, I am a member of the American Federation of Musicians. I have devoted years of my life to the study and teaching of music.

I have the deepest affection and the kindliest of feelings toward those who are in this profession. There is no intent upon my part to make life difficult for the professional musician, but it is an earnest desire upon my part to free those with whom I have worked from the tyranny of anyone who attempts to dictate to them the conditions under which they shall work and their right to work.

I am chairman of a subcommittee investigating the activities of Mr. Petrillo and of the American Federation of Musicians. I sincerely hope that this hearing may be of value to the over-all investigation which I am conducting as chairman of the subcommittee.

It has been stated publicly that this committee will not give a fair and complete hearing to everyone. I want to assure you that every opportunity will be afforded to the unions, as well as to management, to present any complaints which they feel are justifiable.

Mr. Counsel, we are ready to proceed if you will call the first witness.

Mr. McCann. The first witness will be Ward Archer.

TESTIMONY OF WARD ARCHER, CONTRACTOR FOR MUSICIANS AT

EARL CARROLL'S RESTAURANT

(The witness was previously duly sworn.)
Mr. KEARNS. Mr. Archer, have you been sworn?
Mr. ARCHER. Yes, sir.
Mr. KEARNS. Will you give your full name?
Mr. ARCHER. Ward Archer.
Mr. KEARNS. Your address?
Mr. ARCHER. 6608 Waring Avenue.
Mr. KEARNS. Your age?
Mr. ARCHIER. Forty-seven.

Mr. McCANN. Mr. Archer, how long have you been employed by
Mr. Carroll's restaurant?

Mr. ARCHER. Nine years.
Mr. McCann. What is your position with that organization?

Mr. ARCHER. I am the drummer and the contractor; hire and fire the men, pay off, represent the union.

Mr. McCANN. You hire and fire and pay off?
Mr. ARCHER. Yes, sir.
Mr. McCann. And represent the union?
Mr. ARCHER. Yes, sir.

Mr. McCann. How many years have you held the position of contractor?

Mr. ARCHER. Since 1944, the last part of 1944.
Mr. McCann. Who selected you for that position?
Mr. ARCHER. I am appointed by the union.
Mr. McCann. By whom were you appointed?
Mr. ARCHER. Board of directors.
Mr. McCann. Who are the board of directors?

Mr. ARCHER. Consists of five men. I don't know the names of them.
Let's see, I will have to ask some assistance on that.

Mr. McCann. We will get to that later.
Mr. ARCHER. All right, sir.
Mr. McCann. You were chosen for this position by the union?
Mr. ARCHER. Yes, sir.

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Mr. McCann. Now, you are a drummer in the theater and the leader with power to hire and fire. Have you employed any of the musicians since 1944 ?

Mr. ARCHER. Yes, sir.
Mr. McCANN. Name them.

Mr. ARCHER. John Petros, the violin player; Rene Williams, and Joe Strand, who isn't there now.

Mr. McCann. Now, when you hire those men, do you have the board of directors indicate to you whom you shall hire?

Mr. ARCHER. No, sir.
Mr. McCann. You have the right to hire anyone you may please?
Mr. ARCHER. Any man that is capable.
Mr. McCann. You have the right to fire them when you see fit?
Mr. ARCHER. Yes, sir; if they do something wrong:
Mr. McCann. Now, do you make the contract with the employer?
Mr. ARCHER. No, sir; I don't.
Mr. McCann. You have nothing to do with that?
Mr. ARCHER. No.
Mr. McCann. Do you render any other service for the employer,
other than to beat the drums?

Mr. ARCHER. Yes. I see he gets a square deal there, if it is possible.
Mr. McCann. You see he gets a square deal?
Mr. ARCHER. Yes; if he will let me do it.

Mr. McCann. You are the contractor and you see he gets a square deal?

Mr. ARCHER. Yes, sir.

Mr. McCann. Would you tell me whom the men take orders fromdo they take their orders from the employer, Earl Carroll, or do they take their orders from you, the contractor?

Mr. ARCHER. If there are any “beefs" at all, Mr. Carroll comes to me and I tell the fellows about it.

Mr. McCANN. Now, I believe that, as the contractor, you represent the union, as you said, in that orchestra?

Mr. ARCHER. Yes, sir.

Mr. McCann. Does the union pay you anything for representing them in the orchestra?

Mr. ARCHER. No; I get one and a half salary.

Mr. McCann. You get a salary and a half for representing the union?

Mr. ARCHER. Yes.

Mr. McCANN. Will you tell me why, when you represent the union on the orchestra, you should receive more than any other musician that works in the band ?

Mr. ARCHER. Well, I take care of all the grief. I take care of the bills and I pay the men off. He only writes one check, and I make the individual checks out to the fellows.

Mr. McCann. Is that because the union wants it done that way? Mr. ARCHER. That is the best way; it has worked out that way.

Mr. McCANN. I want to ask you, Is there any reason why the employer shouldn't pay each of them?

Mr. ARCHER. Pay each of the men?
Mr. McCANN. Yes.

Mr. ARCHER. No; that would be less work for me. That would be O. K.

Mr. McCANN. As it is, you get one check and write the checks for the others?

Mr. ARCHER. Yes.

Mr. McCann. What do you deduct from each man's check for the union?

Mr. ARCHER. For the union?
Mr. McCANN. Yes.
Mr. ARCHER. A tax.
Mr. McCANN. What is that tax?

Mr. ARCHER. Well, it amounts to now, at the salary of $120, it is 112 percent, which amounts now to $1.80.

Mr. McCann. You take out only $1.80 per month from the members of your union?

Mr. ARCHER. That is right.

Mr. McCANN. Isn't there additional tax of 10 percent which is charged for performing by the national union?

Mr. ARCHER. No, sir.
Mr. McCann. There is no such tax?
Mr. ARCHER. No.

Mr. McCANN. Is it true that the American Federation of Musicians charge artists that belong to another union, who may perform with a musical instrument, 10 percent when they work with some instrument, when they are playing?

Mr. ARCHER. If it is a traveling band, I think it is a charge. Mr. McCann. If it is a traveling band? Mr. ARCHER. Yes. Mr. McCANN. Suppose it is a man who plays trombone in an act, who is a member of the actors' guild, and he comes in and performs in the theater, isn't it true that the A. F. of M. collects from him 10 percent?

Mr. ARCHER. He is supposed to have a union card. That I wouldn't know about. All I am interested in is I have to see if he has a card.

Mr. McCANN. You have to see that any musician who plays at all has a card?

Mr. ARCHER. Yes, sir.

Mr. McCann. Now, you have been with Mr. Carroll, I believe you stated, for 9 years?

Mr. ARCHER. That is right.
Mr. McCann. Do you like your job there?
Mr. ARCHER. Very fine.

Mr. McCann. Have you had any personal differences with Mr. Carroll at all during these 9 years?

Mr. ARCHER. Never have.

Mr. McCann. How many of the men in the orchestra have been there as long as you?

Mr. ARCHER. About two men.
Mr. McCANN. About two men?

Mr. ARCHER. They haven't been as long. About a year difference there.

Mr. McCann. These men in the orchestra draw, as I understand it, $120 a week for their services? Mr. ARCHER. Yes, sir.

66874–47-vol. 1

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Mr. McCANN. You collect the money and distribute it to them. Now, did you, on or about March 12, 1947, after a broadcast by Fulton Lewis, make the statement to anyone that Mr. Carroll was going to be sorry if he went to Washington and testified?

Mr. ARCHER. No, sir.
Mr. McCann. In regard to the union?
Mr. ARCHER. No, sir; I never did.
Mr. McCANN. You never made that statement?
Mr. ARCHER. That is right.

Mr. McCann. Did you tell Harry Long that Mr. Earl Carroll would be sorry if he went to Washington to testify against the musicians union ?

Mr. ARCHER. No, sir; I never did.
Mr. McCann. Did you make the statement to anyone else?
Mr. ARCHER. Never did.

Mr. McCANN. Did any of the members of your official family in the union make any such statement as that to you?

Mr. ARCHER. Not that I know of.

Mr. McCann. Did you receive any instructions from anyone in the musicians' union that you were to make it difficult for Earl Carroll in the operation of his theater restaurant after he went to Washington and testified ?

Mr. ARCHER. No, sir; that would be silly. We have 15 men working there. I would only throw them out of work.

Mr. McCANN. As I recall the incident, there were, prior to the time he went to Washington, 12 regulars and 3 special in the orchestra, is that not true?

Mr. ARCHER. They have always been there. There is no 12 regulars or 3 specials.

Mr. McCANN. They have always been there?
Mr. ARCHER. We have had 15 in that pit all the time; we have had

more.

Mr. McCann. You mean, then, from the very beginning of his operations there have been 15 men? Mr. ARCHER. We have had more.

Mr. McCANN. I know there may have been more at some time. Let us refer to a letter of February 4, 1947, which was sent to the Earl Carroll Theater Restaurant, 6230 Sunset Boulevard, Los Angeles 28, Calif., attention Mr. Earl Carroll, and signed by J. K. Wallace and Lee MacQuarrie.

Were you familiar with that letter? Mr. ARCHER. What did it say? Mr. McCann. I will read the letter to you. DEAR SIRS : We are establishing a standard of scales for theaters and theater restaurants in our jurisdiction.

Mr. ARCHIER. Yes, sir; I know that letter. Mr. McCANN. You know that letter? Mr. ARCHER. Yes; I received one, too. Mr. McCann (continuing reading): Effective March 4, 1947, the following conditions and wage scales will apply to the Earl Carroll Theater Restaurant.

Did you have anything to do with the preparation of that letter? Mr. ÄRCHER. No, sir.

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