Mr. MCCANN. I will ask that this contract, sir, be received in evidence.

Mr. KEARNS. If there is no objection, it will be received.

(The photostatic copy of the contract referred to was marked "Exhibit No. 8" and filed with the committee.)

Mr. MCCANN. Is there any difference in the number of musicians which you are required to have under your contracts for the opera house and for the smaller theater?

Mr. THOMPSON. No; they are both the same-both eight men.

Mr. MCCANN. And how many seats does the Civic Theater have? Mr. THOMPSON. 878.

Mr. MCCANN. And how many seats does the opera house have? Mr. THOMPSON. 3,512.

Mr. MCCANN. And for the two theaters, the number of musicians required under the contract is identical?

Mr. THOMPSON. That is right.

Mr. MCCANN. Now, I will ask you whether or not you recently had an experience in Chicago concerning an engagement for Holiday on Ice.

Mr. THOMPSON. We did.

Mr. MCCANN. Tell the committee what your efforts were to engage this show, and what problems you ran into.

Mr. THOMPSON. We were negotiating to bring Holiday on Ice, which was an ice show, to the opera house. They were playing Boston, Mass., at the time. We never had an ice show in the opera house. It had been very successful in other theaters, and we thought it would be a good experiment.

We went to the union and we were required to engage 29 men at $25 a performance. This was impossible for us to pay, and our manager went back and asked why there were so many men, and they said that is what other ice shows had in the Stadium and the Arena, and that is what we would have to have.

Mr. MCCANN. How large is the Stadium?
Mr. THOMPSON. It seats about 18,000 people.
Mr. MCCANN. And how large is the Arena?
Mr. THOMPSON. It seats about 6,000 people.

Mr. MCCANN. And a peremptory demand was made on you that you should employ 29 musicians at $25 a performance?

Mr. THOMPSON. That is right.

Mr. MCCANN. Now, will you explain to the committee what that would have cost you by the week, and what services you would have received from the orchestra had you accepted those services?

Mr. THOMPSON. We would have given nine performances a week, one every evening, a matinee on Saturday, and a matinee on Sunday, but we would have been compelled to pay for 10 performances, which included a Wednesday matinee, which it is impossible for us to give in our house, for two reasons: one, we cannot get the audience, and the other is it would increase our maximum demand to a point that would make it prohibitive. So, we pay for a Wednesday matinee, but are not able to give a Wednesday matinee.

Mr. MCCANN. Now, will you explain the total cost for 1 week's performances had you accepted the proposition of the union.

Mr. THOMPSON. Well, it would have been nine times $25 per man, times 29 men. Then there is an additional charge for a Sunday performance. Just what that additional charge for the Sunday performance would be, I don't know exactly.

Mr. MCCANN. I am not very good on mathematics. Do you know what that would have cost you a week for your music?

Mr. THOMPSON. I can do a little arithmetic here and give you the

answer.

Mr. MCCANN. I would like to have it, sir.

Mr. THOMPSON. That would be $250 a week times 29-it would be $7,250 a week, plus whatever the additional charge would have been for the Sunday performance.

Mr. MCCANN. Now then, what did you do about that performance of Holiday on Ice?

Mr. THOMPSON. It was impossible for us to book it.

Mr. MCCANN. So you gave up that particular show?
Mr. THOMPSON. That is right.

Mr. MCCANN. Now, did you have any other performances lined up to take the place of Holiday on Ice for the ensuing 2 weeks? Mr. THOMPSON. No; we did not.

Mr. MCCANN. During those 2 weeks, did you have to pay the union? Mr. THOMPSON. No; we did not. We never paid musicians unless there are performances in the house.

Mr. MCCANN. Now, then, what was the regular price for your musicians that you paid them when they were employed? I mean your regular eight musicians.

Mr. THOMPSON. Well, it is in the contract. The contractor for the eight men would be paid $132.87 a week, and seven men would be paid $101.20 per week for the seven additional men, and that excludes the Sunday performance.

Mr. MCCANN. Now, can you tell us just what it cost the union in earnings for their members by having made that arbitrary demand of $25 for 29 musicians?

Mr. THOMPSON. We would have to use 16 or 18 musicians, the same as we would for a musical show, and the men would get $101 a week, plus the Sunday performance, and the Sunday performance, I believe, is $12.65 for seven musicians, and $16.36 for the contractor.

Mr. MCCANN. Can you give us what that total was, what it actually cost the union that made such an arbitrary demand?

Mr. THOMPSON. Well, at $101.20-approximately $1,860 a week. Mr. MCCANN. $1.860 a week.

Mr. THOMPSON. If it was predicated on our musical scale.

Mr. MCCANN. Now, tell me, if you know, how many men had been employed by Holiday on Ice, as musicians, in the show as it appeared in other cities.

Mr. THOMPSON. I am told there were 10 men.

Mr. MCCANN. Do you know how long that show ran in Boston? Mr. THOMPSON. For several weeks, and I understand it went to Detroit.

Mr. MCCANN. And how much did they pay each of those men per day, if you know?

Mr. THOMPSON. That I don't know.

Mr. MCCANN. But in the other cities you had been informed that they never used over 10 men?

Mr. THOMPSON. That they were using 10 men.

Mr. MCCANN. Ten men for their performance.

Mr. THOMPSON. And I was told they were paid the musical scale, musical comedy scale.

Mr. MCCANN. Now, did the union offer at any time to reduce the number of these men before the show was abandoned?

Mr. THOMPSON. Yes, they offered to reduce it to 18 musicians at $21 a performance.

Mr. MCCANN. Why did you turn that down?

Mr. THOMPSON. Because the company was no longer interested in coming to Chicago.

Mr. MCCANN. And the offer was made after you had lost the possibility of bringing the company to Chicago?

Mr. THOMPSON. That is right.

Mr. MCCANN. Now, did you say, or did you not say, that following the canceling of this show, you had 2 weeks in which the opera house was vacant?

Mr. THOMPSON. Two or three weeks we were dark.

Mr. MCCANN. During those 2 or 3 weeks, then, the leader or contractor of the musicians lost $130.87 a week; is that correct? Mr. THOMPSON. That is right.

Mr. MCCANN. And the members of the orchestra lost $101.20, and there were seven of them?

Mr. THOMPSON. That is right.

Mr. MCCANN. And they had that loss as a result of the demand made upon you for a much larger orchestra, which the show would not pay for?

Mr. THOMPSON. That is right.

Mr. MCCANN. Now, I will ask you to tell me about an opera performance which was arranged for in Chicago, and give the committee the terms for that performance, the terms with the union for that performance.

Mr. THOMPSON. The scale for performances of grand opera was $21 per performance, and in 1946 the scale was increased to $27 a performance.

Mr. MCCANN. Will you explain to us what bargaining there was between the $21 and the $27, on the 1945 rate and the 1946 rate? Did they bargain with you on that scale?

Mr. THOMPSON. That was the scale that was set by the union, and that is the scale we pay.

Mr. MCCANN. In other words, there was no choice given to the management at all with respect to how much they should pay, but the union simply said, "Whereas you pay $21 per musician in 1945, you will have to pay $27 in 1946"?

Mr. THOMPSON. That is right.

Mr. MCCANN. When the Metropolitan Opera played in the opera house, did you have to arrange for stand-by musicians?

Mr. THOMPSON. We paid the contractor $378 a week, and seven men $189 a week.

Mr. MCCANN. Did any of them perform?

Mr. THOMPSON. No; they did not.

Mr. MCCANN. How long did the Metropolitan Opera play in Chicago?

Mr. THOMPSON. One week.

Mr. MCCANN. And during that week, then, you had to pay $378 to the contractor, and $189 to seven men, or a total of $1,694, for which you did not receive a single note of music; is that correct?

Mr. THOMPSON. That is right.

Mr. MCCANN. Now, were there any terms or conditions provided in the contract with respect to a member of the Metropolitan Opera becoming sick, and what penalties you would have to pay?

Mr. THOMPSON. These eight men would not be permitted to play, and if one of their men got sick

Mr. MCCANN. One of their men. You mean the Metropolitan Opera?

Mr. THOMPSON. One of the Metropolitan Opera men, it would be necessary for us to employ 18 men in order to have that 1 man replaced.

Mr. MCCANN. In other words, although you were contracting to pay for 8 stand-by musicians at a total of $1,694, in the event that 1 of the 18 who were members of the Metropolitan Opera Co. became ill, you could not go out into the market in Chicago and get a substitute for him, but you had to go out into the market and get 18 substitute men and pay for 18 men to take care of that 1 man that was sick? Mr. THOMPSON. That is right.

Mr. MCCANN. Now, what would it have cost you under your contract had one man been taken sick?

Mr. THOMPSON. $3,512.

Mr. MCCANN. In other words, if one man of the Metropolitan Opera Co. had been taken sick, it would have cost you $3,592 for one performance

Mr. THOMPSON. $3,502.

Mr. MCCANN. $3,502, and only 1 of the 18 men would have actually played that evening?

Mr. THOMPSON. That is right.

Mr. MCCANN. Now, I notice that there was a scale in Chicago for ballet performances. What was the scale there in 1945 for musicians at ballet performances?

Mr. THOMPSON. $16 per man per performance.

Mr. MCCANN. How many musicians did you have to have for such a performance?

Mr. THOMPSON. We were required to employ as many local men as the touring company had with them.

Mr. MCCANN. In other words, you had to pay—wait a minute. Do you mean you had to pay as many musicians as the touring company had musicians?

Mr. THOMPSON. That is right. But those men played.

Mr. MCCANN. I see.

Mr. THOMPSON. In other words, as I recall the touring company had 18 musicians, and we employed 18 musicians, and there were 36 in the pit.

Mr. MCCANN. Did they all play?
Mr. THOMPSON. They all played.

Mr. MCCANN. Was that changed from 1945 to 1946, from $16 to $21, as the rate?

Mr. THOMPSON. That is right.

Mr. MCCANN. Have you had any collective bargaining, or did you do any collective bargaining when that rate was changed from $16 to $21?

Mr. THOMPSON. No, I believe the company was in town. It was the day before the performance when we were told the scale was to be $21. Mr. MCCANN. And who told you that, sir?

Mr. THOMPSON. No one told me; it was told to the manager of the opera.

Mr. MCCANN. The manager of the opera house. And with whom does the manager of the opera house do business in Chicago, as the representative of Mr. Petrillo's union?

Mr. THOMPSON. Either Mr. Benkert, or Mr. Baumann.

Mr. MCCANN. How long have you been required to have eight musicians in your two theaters?

Mr. THOMPSON. Since last September.

Mr. MCCANN. That was right after Labor Day?

Mr. THOMPSON. Yes, sir.

Mr. MCCANN. How many were you required to have before Labor Day?

Mr. THOMPSON. Six men.

Mr. MCCANN. How long did you have six men?

Mr. THOMPSON. For several years.

Mr. MCCANN. As a matter of fact, it was 1 year, wasn't it?

Mr. THOMPSON. I know we had these men for several years.

Mr. MCCANN. What was it before that, do you know?

Mr. THOMPSON. It has been six men, as many years as I have been there.

Mr. MCCANN. How long have you been there?

Mr. THOMPSON. Ten years.

Mr. MCCANN. Was there any bargaining between you and the local as to the number of men that you should have in 1946, or were you just told how many you should have?

Mr. THOMPSON. Well, we were told in advance of our new contract we would have to have eight men. We were told a year in advance. Mr. MCCANN. A year in advance?

Mr. THOMPSON. Yes.

Mr. MCCANN. Were the other theaters in Chicago told the same. thing?

Mr. THOMPSON. Yes.

Mr. MCCANN. In other words, every theater in Chicago, whether they need them or do not need them, has to have eight men; is that correct?

Mr. THOMPSON. That is right.

Mr. MCCANN. And they are required to have those men and pay them whether they appear or do not appear to render any service? Mr. THOMPSON. That is right.

Mr. MCCANN. I am through, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. KEARNS. Thank you, Mr. Thompson, for your testimony. You are excused.