Mr. MCCANN. Have you heard any of them say that, "We will fix that fellow"? Either in those words or in any other words?

Mr. PENDLETON. No; the only thing I heard mentioned is, "How the hell does he get so much money for his stuff and doesn't want to pay the musicians?" That is about as far as I would go, sir.

Mr. MCCANN. You mean going to Washington or to Sacramento? Mr. PENDLETON. No, no; that was just the matter of the way he conducts his business-that is, the sort of a price it is and the method of trying to

Mr. McCANN. The inference has reached me that there has been considerable talk, and I want to know if you have heard any of it, that this was a smear investigation and we were going to smear the American Federation of Musicians.

Mr. PENDLETON. You mean, heard from anybody?

Mr. MCCANN. Heard from anybody.

Mr. PENDLETON. No, sir.

Mr. MCCANN. Have you heard anyone at any time in your board meetings say they were going to turn the Earl Carroll Theater and Restaurant into a garage?

Mr. PENDLETON. Oh, no; never heard of that. That is one I missed.

Mr. MCCANN. You missed that. That is all at this time, sir.
Mr. KEARNS. Wait. I have a few questions.

I want to check with you some figures I have occasionally heard. Would you estimate in your own mind that 4,333 members of the American Federation of Musicians out of your 13,000 are really fulltime employees?

Mr. PENDLETON. Yes; I definitely do, sir.

Mr. KEARNS. Would you say there would be that many?

Mr. PENDLETON. I would; if I may be allowed to approach that with the statement that where one man or his family is satisfied with $25 a week, another one might want $2,500 a week, but I mean from the standpoint of his being, I would say, gainfully employed to the extent that they are able to survive.

Mr. KEARNS. Would you say that there are approximately 4,000 men employed full time in the movie industry?

Mr. PENDLETON. Well, that is a little bit outside of my general line. That would be a guess.

Mr. KEARNS. You mean that you do not have the information as to how many would be actually employed in the movie industry here? Mr. PENDLETON. No; I don't think I could possibly give you anything but a raw guess.

Mr. KEARNS. How many do they employ as an average, say, in a month? Take the musicians that they bring in like name bands, and so forth.

Mr. PENDLETON. That is again out of my control.

Mr. KEARNS. You know it all clears through this local?

Mr. PENDLETON. I know the local is a big thing.

Mr. KEARNS. I know, but you are running a big business, and you ought to have records.

Mr. PENDLETON. The department which does that does have those records.

Mr. KEARNS. You have them there?

Mr. PENDLETON. You can get them; certainly.

Mr. KEARNS. That is what I want to find out, because we have in the record a statement that so many musicians are employed part time, and I wanted to ascertain

Mr. PENDLETON. May I answer that, sir?

Mr. KEARNS. Yes.

Mr. PENDLETON. There is a tax office of quite some considerable extent down at the building, in general charge of the transcribing of records and transcriptions and what-not that comes under the general supervision of a man placed in that office by the American Federation of Musicians. That is Mr. J. W. Gillette, who has an office on the second floor. Between his office and the office of the tax collector; all of those matters which you have just spoken of are matters of record. Mr. KEARNS. Mr. Counsel, I would like to have you take that name. Mr. PENDLETON. J. W. Gillette.

Mr. MCCANN. What about, sir?

Mr. KEARNS. I would like to have him available here for some questioning on figures and bring those data with him.

Mr. MCCANN. Is he your auditor?

Mr. PENDLETON. No, no.

Mr. KEARNS. He is the tax man.

Mr. PENDLETON. No.

Mr. KEARNS. That is what you said, isn't it?

Mr. PENDLETON. He is international supervisor for the American Federation of Musicians.

Mr. KEARNS. That is not what you said before,

Mr. PENDLETON. I am sorry.

Mr. MCCANN. Mr. Chairman, at this time I would like to ask you to issue a subpena for the doctor for 10 o'clock in the morning.

Mr. KEARNS. From what I understand, Mr. Counsel, he has some operations in the morning, and it is not my intent to in any way jeopardize somebody's life for him to come over here. I will personally work and stay in session until he comes over this evening.

Mr. MCCANN. Will he? I didn't know he was planning to come this evening.

Mr. KEARNS. He hasn't planned on it, but I would want you to call now and tell him I would like to have him here at 5. I will wait until he comes here.

Mr. MCCANN. Mr. Chairman, I dislike very much to call your attention to the fact that you have another appointment.

Mr. KEARNS. I think it is very important to establish this evidence of this affidavit.

Mr. MCCANN. I think it is very important to establish the evidence, and I think in view of the evidence that the Government's business comes before his business. It is possible that he may have an operation, but the doctor has made conflicting affidavits, affidavits which are not sustained by the records of the union, and I don't feel like showing too much consideration for the doctor's personal affairs. I do not want to interfere with his services to humanity, but I think that the doctor should be forthwith summoned to this hearing and his patients in the office stay and wait for him. It will take him but a very few minutes, and I think if the chairman of this committee says, "Doctor, you come," that he will come.

Mr. KEARNS. I am not worried about that, but I think this would be the easy way out. He has had no warning or notice that he would be called. Everyone else here who has been under subpena has been given official notice of it. Let's proceed. I will stay here for him. Mr. MCCANN. No further questions from myself at this time. I want you to be available, though, for examination after I examine the records.

Mr. PENDLETON. Thank you. You mean, remain in the hearing? Mr. MCCANN. You are free to go this afternoon if you desire, sir.

Is Mr. Rathbun here?

Mr. KEARNS. Mr. Counsel, what about the records? Do you want him to deliver them to you?

Mr. PENDLETON. I would like to have a receipt for them, sir.

Mr. MCCANN. You are welcome to a receipt, sir. I think I will take those to the hotel myself.

Mr. PENDLETON. They are heavy.

Mr. MCCANN. That is all right. I am accustomed to carrying what I need. This is about half the size of a good golf bag.

Mr. PENDLETON. I would like to show you, sir; there are four volumes.

Mr. MCCANN. Off the record, please. We are just looking at them. (Discussion off the record.)

Mr. MCCANN. That is what I am taking.

Mr. PENDLETON. If somebody will make a note of it.

Mr. MCCANN. Yes.

Mr. PENDLETON. This is the current book of the board of directors' minutes for 1947 up to this last board meeting. The minutes of the trial board of this association for the year 1946. The minutes of the proceedings of the board of directors, special and general meetings, for the years 1945 and 1946.

Mr. MCCANN. All right, sir. Just a moment before you go. Does this include the last meeting of the board of directors?

Mr. PENDLETON. No; it does not. They are not prepared, and my private secretary did not show up this morning.

(Further discussion off the record.)

Mr. MCCANN. Are the other members of the board present-I am not sure that I know their names.

Mr. Boyd, will you take the stand?

Mr. KEARNS. Mr. Boyd, will you raise your right hand? Do you solemnly swear that the testimony that you are about to give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? Mr. BOYD. I do.

Mr. KEARNS. Take the stand, please.

TESTIMONY OF JOHN M. BOYD, TRUSTEE OF LOCAL 47, AMERICAN FEDERATION OF MUSICIANS, LOS ANGELES, CALIF.

Mr. MCCANN. Mr. Boyd, please tell your full name and your address and your telephone number where you can be reached.

Mr. BOYD. John M. Boyd, 2639 Live Oak Street, Huntington Park. Telephone Lafayette 3894.

Mr. MCCANN. What position, if any, do you hold with the American Federation of Musicians?

Mr. BOYD. I am one of the trustees of the local.

Mr. MCCANN. How long have you held that position, sir?
Mr. BOYD. Since August 1941, I think.

Mr. MCCANN. What are your duties?

Mr. BOYD. The duties of the trustees are to check the assets of the local and keep track of what moneys we have, and what we have not got, and our liabilities, and so on and so forth.

Mr. MCCANN. You are in the nature of a financial director of the organization?

Mr. BOYD. That is right.

Mr. MCCANN. Do you have anything to do with the meetings of the board of directors?

Mr. BOYD. Oh, yes; I am a member of the board of directors.

Mr. MCCANN. Do you attend those meetings regularly?

Mr. BOYD. Yes, sir.

Mr. MCCANN. Will you tell us how long Mr. "Spike" Wallace was present at the last meeting of the board?

Mr. BOYD. The last meeting of the board-just a short time, to my recollection.

Mr. MCCANN. Two or three hours?

Mr. BOYD. Not that long-possibly 12 or 2 hours.

Mr. MCCANN. That was on what day, sir?

Mr. BOYD. I don't know. I can't remember that.

Mr. MCCANN. The last minutes, I understand, you dont' have. How about the minutes of the meeting before that?

Mr. PENDLETON. Are you speaking to me, sir?

Mr. MCCANN. No; I am still speaking to the witness on the stand. There was a meeting on July 28.

Mr. BOYD. That was the last Friday of that month, is that right? Mr. MCCANN. That was on Monday.

Mr. BOYD. Monday?

Mr. MCCANN. July 28, according to this record.

Mr. BOYD. Well, that was a special board meeting.

Mr. MCCANN. Yes.

Mr. BOYD. Mr. Wallace was not there.

Mr. MCCANN. Mr. Wallace was not there?

Mr. BOYD. No.

Mr. MCCANN. You are correct. Now, the meeting before that, sir, on July 30-Mr. Wallace was not there that day. I don't want to waste your time, so I am just having to look at it quickly. How often does your board meet, sir?

Mr. BOYD. Once a week. Friday is the meeting day-every Friday. Mr. MCCANN. Friday is the usual day?

Mr. BOYD. That is right.

Mr. MCCANN. And are the other meetings on call of the vice president?

Mr. BOYD. Yes; meetings can be called by the president and vice president; special meetings in emergency or sometimes on call, not so often, but it happens possibly once a month there is an extra meeting of the board.

Mr. MCCANN. Do you recall when the last meeting of your board was?

Mr. BOYD. Yes, sir.

Mr. MCCANN. When was that?

Mr. BOYD. Last Friday.

Mr. MCCANN. And at that time Mr. Wallace was there for 12 or 2 hours?

Mr. BOYD. No; I didn't say that.

Mr. MCCANN. Oh, I thought that was the meeting you said he attended.

Mr. BOYD. No.

Mr. MCCANN. When was that?

Mr. BOYD. The week before or the week before that, Mr. Wallace was there for a short time.

Mr. MCCANN. Well, Mr. Wallace was there on July 11, I note from these records.

Mr. BOYD. That is about my recollection.

Mr. MCCANN. Do you know how long he was there then?

Mr. BOYD. A very short time.

Mr. MCCANN. A very short time?

Mr. BOYD. He came in after lunch, I believe, and left before we adjourned. He is a sick man and he couldn't stand it. He had to go home.

Mr. MCCANN. I notice that he was present at the directors' meeting held on June 27. Do you recall that meeting?

Mr. BOYD. I recall it, yes; I was there.

Mr. MCCANN. Do you recall seeing-of course, Mr. Wallace was at that meeting. Do you know how long he was there on that occasion?

Mr. BOYD. I wouldn't say for sure.

Mr. MCCANN. And then he attended the meeting on June 23, I notice.

Mr. BOYD. All those meetings, sir, he would come in and look around and say hello, and go back home.

Mr. MCCANN. And, of course, he was at the meeting immediately after the examination of your witnesses here at our hearing on the 17th, 18th, and 19th of June. Now, when we completed our hearing here on June 20, when Mr. Wallace came down to that meeting, how long did he stay?

Mr. BOYD. That day he came in about 11 o'clock, I think.

Mr. MCCANN. How long did he stay?

Mr. Bord. Well, we broke up for lunch and he was only there a short time in the afternoon.

Mr. MCCANN. On that occasion, the hearing had just been completed here, and he had been excused because of his illness at that time. Did he make any statement with respect to why he attended the meeting that day with you?

Mr. BOYD. May I answer you in my own way, sir?

Mr. MCCANN. I will be glad to have you answer, sir.

Mr. BOYD. I would like to have the record say that, to the best of my ability—that I have heard the proceedings so far, and I want the committee to believe me when I tell you Mr. Wallace is a very sick man. He is a conscientious man, and against the doctor's advice he showed up around those board meetings when the board thought he ought to stay home.

He thinks it is his duty to come there, if he can; if he can drag himself out of the house, he would come down to those meetings. The