Mr. McCANN. No further questions. Mr. KEARNS. I would like to ask the witness: Do you think there was trouble expected there? Mrs. LIMA. Yes. Mr. KEARNS. You didn't know when it would happen, but you think trouble was expected? Mrs. LIMA. Yes. Mr. KEARNS. You were not surprised when you were told to go home, they were walking out? Mrs. LIMA. It surprised me at the time. I didn't expect it at that time. I knew it was going to come sometime; there was trouble brewing, you know. Mr. KEARNS. That is all. Mr. MCCANN. Mr. Chairman, I don't think that we should continue any further tonight. I would like to adjourn until 10 in the morning, if it is agreeable. Mr. KEARNS. Very well. This hearing will stand adjourned until 10 a. m. tomorrow morning. (Whereupon at 4: 10 p. m. an adjournment was taken, to reconvene at 10 o'clock a. m., Wednesday, June 18, 1947.) INVESTIGATION OF JAMES C. PETRILLO, THE AMERICAN FEDERATION OF MUSICIANS, ET AL, WEDNESDAY, JUNE 18, 1947 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, SPECIAL SUBCOMMITTEE OF THE COMMITTEE ON EDUCATION AND LABOR, Los Angeles, Calif. The subcommittee met at 10 a. m., the Honorable Carroll B. Kearns (chairman of the subcommittee) presiding. Present also: Irving G. McCann, general counsel to the committee, and Otto J. Emme, appearing for the Musicians Mutual Protective Association, Local 47, A. F. of M. Mr. KEARNS. The hearing will come to order. Mr. Counsel, who is your first witness? Mr. MCCANN. The first witness is Mr. Cooper. He has to be sworn, sir. Mr. KEARNS. Mr. Cooper, take the stand. TESTIMONY OF CARL G. COOPER, BUSINESS REPRESENTATIVE, STAGE EMPLOYEES UNION, LOCAL NO. 33, LOS ANGELES, CALIF.; INTERNATIONAL VICE PRESIDENT, IATSE (The witness was duly sworn.) Mr. MCCANN. Mr. Cooper, will you state your full name and address? Mr. COOPER. Carl G. Cooper, 136 North Vista Street, Los Angeles. Mr. MCCANN. What, if any, official position do you occupy in the union? Mr. COOPER. I am a business representative of the Stage Employees Union, Local 33, here in Los Angeles; also an international vice president of the IATSE. Mr. MCCANN. How long have you held that position? Mr. COOPER. Twelve years locally, seven years with the international. Mr. MCCANN. You said you were vice president of the international? Mr. COOPER. Yes, sir. Mr. MCCANN. Do you have jurisdiction in your position over the employees in that organization at the Earl Carroll Theater and Restaurant? Mr. COOPER. Yes, I do. Mr. McCANN. Did you have any contact with the Earl Carroll Theater and Restaurant with respect to a strike that was called there on May 27, 1947? Mr. COOPER. The only thing, after Mr. Carroll refused to pay the boys for supposedly time lost when they went out there, I wrote him a letter. Mr. MCCANN. That is not the incident I am talking about, sir. I am talking about the strike on the 27th, when the musicians were out in the back lot. Did you have any contact prior to that strike of May 27 with the musicians' union? Mr. COOPER. Oh, no; not directly at all. That never bothered me at all. Mr. MCCANN. Indirectly, tell us what your contact was. Mr. COOPER. Well, that is just rumors. There is no secrets around the theater. From my own boys talking that the musicians were having trouble and would likely not go in on that night. Mr. MCCANN. Tell me what boys told you, sir. Mr. COOPER. That is hard to say. I talked to all of them. I would say the stage crew, but there are at least five on the back stage. Mr. MCCANN. Did you talk to the five on the back stage? Mr. COOPER. I can't recall who made that. The other boys might have talked and told me that. Mr. MCCANN. They told you that they thought there was going to be a strike at Earl Carroll's, and that this strike was the direct result of his trip to Washington? Mr. COOPER. NO; they didn't tell me that. They said there was trouble over the three men who had been in controversy for 3 months before, and they said they were not likely to go to work until those boys got it. I believe they wanted to get some pay check, so they said it looks like those boys are not going to work any unless they get that. This was on Tuesday night, the show was closed on Monday. Mr. MCCANN. In other words, if I understand you, Mr. Carroll was holding up the pay of men who were his employees, and he had refused to pay his employees, so there would be a strike? Mr. COOPER. No; they didn't say it that way. They just made the statement that they are liable not to go in that night. Mr. MCCANN. Had your men had any trouble? Mr. COOPER. Not that I know of; no. Mr. MCCANN. With Earl Carroll? Mr. COOPER. Not as far as I am concerned. Mr. MCCANN. What is the relationship of your group with respect to Mr. Carroll and his theater? Mr. COOPER. Well, it has been fair-nothing to brag about. Mr. COOPER. That is right. Mr. McCann. As a matter of fact, he has had a carpenter out there for a long time that he has tried to get rid of, is that right? Mr. COOPER. I wouldn't say that in all that time he was trying to get rid of him, but I think it was personal as far as he was concerned. Mr. MCCANN. Well, you wouldn't let him fire the man. Mr. COOPER. No. Mr. McCANN. Do you think that it is your right as a representative of your international to tell a man who shall work in his place? Mr. COOPER. Under certain circumstances I believe so: yes. Mr. MCCANN. You feel that you have a right to do that? Mr. COOPER. I believe, if he started picking on them through union activities or something like that, I believe I have that right. Mr. MCCANN. There is no question in your mind that Mr. Carroll has a right to fire a man working for him-he is the employer? Mr. COOPER. Not that I know of. Mr. MCCANN. No matter whether he got rid of a man who was unsatisfactory, whether he belonged to the union or not, he would have to get another person from the union, wouldn't he? Mr. COOPER. Yes. Mr. MCCANN. Don't you think an employer has the right to choose someone who is willing to get along and do what he wants in his place? Mr. COOPER. Under normal circumstances; yes. Mr. MCCANN. Who is the one who has the right to determine that, the union representative or the employer? Mr. COOPER. I think I have a right to go in and talk to Mr. Carroll, and under the circumstances I did go and talk to him. Mr. MCCANN. You went to Mr. Carroll and talked to him and you told him he had to keep him; in other words, you told him, whether he is wrong or not, you are going to keep him. Mr. COOPER. I asked him to keep the man. Mr. MCCANN. And he kept him, didn't he? Mr. COOPER. That is right. Mr. MCCANN. You have how many out there working for Earl Carroll? Mr. COOPER. Eight. Mr. MCCANN. What are their pay scales? Mr. COOPER. They run $102-three at $102; $90 for four; and it is $70 for one. Mr. MCCANN. Now, those employees are the ones that push the scenery around; is that the job? Mr. COOPER. Some of them; yes. Mr. MCCANN. Describe the duties of those men in the theater. Mr. COOPER. Well, the five on the stage operate and handle everything on the stage. The two in front handle the four spotlights with one booth, and one handles the sound equipment in another booth. Mr. MCCANN. Now, on May 27, had you had any talk at all with any representative of the musicians' union with respect to what your union members were to do if the musicians didn't go into the pit? Mr. COOPER. No; only to my own members. Mr. MCCANN. What did you tell them? Mr. COOPER. I told them if the musicians didn't go to work, not for them to go to work. Mr. MCCANN. For them not to go to work. Mr. COOPER. That is right. Mr. MCCANN. Had you a dispute at that time? Mr. COOPER. We didn't have any dispute at that time; no. Mr. MCCANN. You didn't have any dispute? Mr. COOPER. No. Mr. MCCANN. In other words, it was simply the fact that the mu sicians saw fit not to go to work that you ordered your men also to stay out. Mr. COOPER. That is right. Mr. McCANN. That is what they did on the night of the 27th; is that right? |