Mr. REED. That is true. Mr. KEARNS. If these fellows didn't spend their money to build these places and run industry and run theaters and all types of business, we wouldn't have any work there, would we? Mr. REED. That is true. Mr. KEARNS. Probably you and I could not go in business, as we do not have enough capital to go in business with, or probably we would be in business. So I think that a man who makes this investment, uses his venture capital to give employment to other people, is worthy of some consideration, and as a member of the union it seems to me that if I was the business agent I would try to adjust these matters so a thing like this would not be necessary, and I certainly would go before your board, if I were in your position as business agent there with this theater and restaurant in my jurisdiction, I would go to my board and appeal for harmony and make some adjustment with Mr. Carroll, because you want to keep him in business, don't you? Mr. REED. That is true; absolutely. Mr. KEARNS. Because if you don't, later on others will be like Mr. Carroll is, they are going to get disgusted and close up, and we won't have a lot of jobs for a lot of these fellows. I hope that your unionI am interested in this union of yours and mine-I hope that you fellows that have the honor of being elected business agents or to the board get hold of it and try to get things fixed up so you don't have this trouble. Mr. REED. It would be a lot easier job if that were possible. Mr. REED. That is right. Mr. KEARNS. It isn't all one-sided. Mr. REED. No; it isn't. Mr. KEARNS. That is all, Mr. Reed. Thank you. Mr. MCCANN. That is all, Mr. Reed. I would like to recall Mr. MacQuarrie for one or two questions. FURTHER TESTIMONY OF LEE MacQUARRIE-Recalled (The witness was previously sworn.) Mr. MCCANN. You have already been sworn, I believe. Mr. MACQUARRIE. That is right, sir. Mr. MCCANN. Now, yesterday, I believe you testified at length, and I have just a few more questions to ask you. When the strike was called on the 27th of May at the Earl Carroll Theater and they walked out, did the union steward, Ward Archer, in that strike, contact the board? Mr. MACQUARRIE. I believe, sir, that Mr. Archer contacted some members of the board in view of that 2 weeks' notice clause in our bylaws that you read yesterday. I believe that, being the contractor there, he was justified-the board felt-I don't know-I mean I am just going on my own feelings-justified that the three boys in question should get their 2 weeks' notice. Mr. MCCANN. In other words, the union steward, Ward Archer, communicated with the board, in your opinion, and they did support him in calling the strike; was that the situation, or just what did they do? Mr. MACQUARRIE. Mr. McCann, I am only going on what Mr. Archer said yesterday, that he contacted one of the board members. Now, whether they gave him permission to go ahead and do it with the consent of the board, I really couldn't say, to be truthful. Mr. MCCANN. Can you tell us whether it is necessary in case of a dispute between an employee and employer for the contractor to communicate with the board before he takes action? Mr. MACQUARRIE. I believe he said he did communicate with the board. Mr. MCCANN. I just asked you if it is a rule that the contractors in all of these cases should, as a matter of rule in your union, take it up with the board before they do take any strike action. Mr. MACQUARRIE. Yes; I think they usually do. Mr. MCCANN. And that is a rule of the union? Mr. MACQUARRIE. Yes; I should imagine. Mr. MCCANN. I just thought that you ought to know if there is such a rule, being a vice president of the union. Mr. MACQUARRIE. I am not a vice president. Mr. MCCANN. Well, you are assistant to the president. Mr. MACQUARRIE. That is right. Mr. MCCANN. And you are the man that wrote the letter setting up these terms. Now, there is another question I wanted to ask you. Yesterday a comment was made that there was one other theater in town where they got, I believe, $5 more for musicians than they did at Earl Carroll's. Mr. MACQUARRIE. That is the Blackouts Theater on Vine Street. Mr. MCCANN. Isn't it a fact that they have 13 shows a week there? Mr. MCCANN. They have three matinees, don't they? Mr. MACQUARRIE. They have a Saturday matinee and then a Sunday matinee or supper show, I think on Sunday. I think that is their schedule, with a later show around 10: 30 at night. Mr. MCCANN. Thirteen shows as against five at Earl Carroll's. Mr. MACQUARRIE. The entire evening's work for Mr. Carroll takes in actual playing around 41⁄2 or 5 hours from the time they start their shows until they finish. Mr. MCCANN. They have a 6-day show, though? Mr. MACQUARRIE. That is right; but at the Blackouts their show, I think, just takes about from 212 hours-somewhere around that, for each performance, you see, and they only work part of the time. Mr. MCCANN. They do have a great many more performances there than they do at Earl Carroll's, and during the course of the week for $5 more they give three or four more shows, anyway, don't they? Mr. MACQUARRIE. Well, on an hourly basis I think the Blackouts has less hours per week than Earl Carroll. Mr. MCCANN. On the basis of hours? Mr. MACQUARRIE. Yes; I think 10 shows at 22 hours each, somewhere around that, your time would be 25 hours. Mr. MCCANN. Did you have anything to do with issuing the order or did you issue the order for the three extra musicians to report to Carroll's Theater? Mr. MACQUARRIE. When do you mean? Mr. MCCANN. On March 4. Mr. MACQUARRIE. I got my orders through the board; yes. Mr. MCCANN. You issued the order to them to report there at Carroll's Theater against Carroll's permission, and instead of asking him to employ them, you issued the order to them to report there. Mr. MACQUARRIE. That is right. I had my orders from the board. Mr. MCCANN. You were carrying out the board's instructions when you did? Mr. MACQUARRIE. That is right. Mr. MCCANN. I think I asked you this yesterday, so it is just a bit of repetition. Carroll does own the theater? Mr. MACQUARRIE. That is right. Mr. MCCANN. And under normal relations he is the guy who is supposed to tell people whether they can work for him or not; isn't that true? Mr. MACQUARRIE. As the employer I would say "Yes." Mr. MCCANN. And under this particular set-up he doesn't get to do it, does he? Mr. MACQUARRIE. We tried to arbitrate it to the best of my ability, and it was presented before our board, and that was the decision of the board. I mean, I am not taking an arbitrary stand on it. Mr. MCCANN. I want to ask you what you mean by arbitration. Did you ever in the world offer Mr. Carroll the privilege of submitting it to a committee, one for him, one for the board, and a disinterested third party to arbitrate this proposition? Mr. MACQUARRIE. On this particular proposition? Mr. MCCANN. Well, on any proposition, have the musicians ever offered to do that? Mr. MACQUARRIE. I think at one particular time there was an arbitration of something, some controversy. I couldn't say what, you see, because I am not working on that end of it, but I do know of it. Mr. MCCANN. But there never has been a board of arbitration in the sense of you picking one person, and the owner picking some person, and a third person would then say which is right on this thing? Mr. MACQUARRIE. Yes. Mr. MCCANN. That isn't your policy of arbitration, is it, Mr. MacQuarrie? Mr. MACQUARRIE. Well, it is. We have had a lot of arbitrations. We have been in the arbitration board several times. Mr. MCCANN. I want to ask you if you can name any case, and I want the name, and I would like to have the dates, when your board has made an arbitration-this is very important-when your musical board has made an arbitration with respect to the salaries, wages, hours, and working conditions for any employee in the city. Could you have such a list made up for me? Mr. MACQUARRIE. Could I have such a list made up? Mr. MCCANN. Yes; I would like to know if there has ever been an arbitration of those elements. Mr. MACQUARRIE. Well, right off-hand I could not give you any dates. However, in some of the studios some of the employees and employers came up before the board, and the board has in some cases, might not have been in my district or particular time, might have been some of the other boys' districts, and I think there have been Mr. MCCANN. Wait. That is not arbitration, though, Mr. MacQuarrie. That is a discussion between the employer and the union to deter mine whether the employer is being forced to do everything the union requires. That is bargaining. But I am talking about arbitration in a sense you don't. In this letter of yours you say, "We have decided that you must have so many men, and you must have them altogether working for the full time, and you must pay them such and such rates." You don't present that as "We propose these terms which we would like to have you respect"; but you said, "Now, you take these terms." That is the difference in terminology between bargaining and making a demand. You will agree with that, won't you? Mr. MCCANN. Have you ever made with an employer an agreement that since he would not consent to your terms and you would not consent to his terms, that you would pick an independent person or independent group to pass on the rights in the case? Mr. MACQUARRIE. In my own particular experience I have not. Mr. MCCANN. You have not? Mr. MACQUARRIE. That is right. Mr. MCCANN. Mr. MacQuarrie, one of the most serious complaints. that has been made to the committee of the American Federation of Musicians is that in numerous places throughout the United States the American Federation of Musicians has required people to take so many musicians whether they play a note, whether they wanted them, whether they rendered any service or not, and pay an orchestra week after week after week for no service at all. I believe that that is just unfair. Mr. MACQUARRIE. Well, I don't know of any particular case I have ever done that in my whole personal experience. Mr. MCCANN. If your organization does it, is it possible? Mr. MACQUARRIE. There may be some other locals that figure it is possible. I mean I can't speak for them. Mr. MCCANN. Does your organization, your board in the city, do anything like that? Mr. MACQUARRIE. Not to my knowledge. Mr. McCANN. Not to your knowledge? Mr. MACQUARRIE. No; I mean I could not specially remember right now of anything like that. Mr. MCCANN. Mr. Carroll thinks he is one. But what I am trying to get at is, if you have any other place in this town where you say to a theater, where you say to a broadcast company, where you say to any restaurant, "You must employ so many at such and such a wage scale," and those people has said, "We don't want them, we can't use them," and yet they are forced to pay for the services. Do you know of any such instances in the Los Angeles area? Mr. MACQUARRIE. As far as radio is concerned, I know nothing about radio. I mean I want that understood that I have never entered into the radio field. I really could not give you any information on that. To my knowledge in the field that I have covered, I cannot think of any actual case. Mr. MCCANN. Thank you very much. Mr. Chairman Mr. KEARNS. I want to ask a couple of questions. Mr. Archer, when he was on the stand yesterday, made some remarks that were rather interesting to me. I would like to know who buys the music out there that the orchestra uses. Mr. MACQUARRIE. Who buys the music? Mr. KEARNS. Yes; does Mr. Carroll buy it or does the orchestra furnish it? Mr. MACQUARRIE. No; I believe that the show music is furnished by Mr. Carroll. I imagine that the dance music might be furnished by the leader. Mr. KEARNS. Does Mr. Carroll engage an arranger to score his show music? Mr. MACQUARRIE. I believe he does; yes. Mr. KEARNS. Does he ever do any of it himself? Mr. MACQUARRIE. That I couldn't say. You mean Mr. Carroll? Mr. KEARNS. Yes. Mr. MACQUARRIE. That I couldn't say. Mr. KEARNS. Well, at least, if he is putting the show on, and supplies the parts and scores it, I would say that was his property, wouldn't you? Mr. MACQUARRIE. Yes, sir. Mr. KEARNS. I think Mr. Archer mentioned on the stand here yesterday that these three men in question had locked up the violin parts in the lockers so they would not be taken away; is that correct? Mr. MACQUARRIE. I heard Mr. Archer testify to that; yes. Mr. KEARNS. Well, do you think it is right-you are still functioning in the capacity of business agent, aren't you? Mr. MACQUARRIE. That is right. Mr. KEARNS. Do you think that is good business on the part ofMr. MACQUARRIE. Well, under the circumstances I would say "No," but I don't know anything about the circumstances which led up to this, whether Mr. Carroll asked Mr. Archer for the parts, or the orchestrator, or not. I mean, I couldn't give you that information. Mr. KEARNS. I was thinking about that when I heard it. I thought it was rather babyish when he was telling about locking up the scores and that kind of tactics. We are all grown-up people. Mr. MACQUARRIE. That is right, sir. Mr. KEARNS. You would say then, as a representative of the union, that you would not subscribe to that type of tactics? Mr. MACQUARRIE. No; I don't believe in confiscating anybody else's property. Mr. KEARNS. All right; that is all. Mr. MCCANN. I want to ask another question, if I may, sir. I have in my hand the May issue of Overture, monthly publication, official journal of the MMPA, local 47, A. F. of M. I will ask you if this is the regular official organ of your organization. Mr. MACQUARRIE. That is right. Mr. MCCANN. I notice on page 33 there is a list of people who are suspended from membership. Can you tell me the basis upon which members are suspended from your organization? Mr. MACQUARRIE. You mean this list right here? Mr. MCCANN. Yes. Mr. MACQUARRIE. I believe this is for nonpayment of dues. Mr. MCCANN. Nonpayment of dues is a cause for suspension? Mr. MACQUARRIE. That is right. Mr. MCCANN. Are there any other grounds upon which you suspend members? Mr. MACQUARRIE. Breach of good faith and fair dealing. Sometimes there has been some action taken. 66874-47-vol. 1- 6 |