Mr. MCCANN. Who was responsible for that letter? Mr. ARCHER. Well, the board figures that out. I don't have anything to do with it. Mr. MCCANN. The board figured it out? Mr. ARCHER. Yes. Mr. MCCANN. Now, in that letter it was stated a minimum of 16 men, including leader and director, to apply at all times. Now, you say that had been true all the time before? Mr. ARCHER. They played for the shows there. They have been there right along. Mr. MCCANN. I understand there were times when they called in, as you say, three more men and they may have called in another band at times. But isn't it a fact that for the regular performance, through the whole series of dancing and broadcasting and show, and all, there was a band of 12? Mr. ARCHER. For the show? Mr. ARCHER. For the dance. Mr. MCCANN. And then there were three extras that were called in for what? Mr. ARCHER. For the show. Mr. MCCANN. For the show. Now, then, they weren't regulars for the entire performance. But this letter required they should be regulars for the entire performance, did it not? So that this letter did modify the existing situation at the Earl Carroll Theater, did it not? Mr. ARCHER. Then? Mr. MCCANN. Wait a minute. That is true. Now, when this letter was sent it was a demand, then, by the union that, whereas, up to that time, there had been three men used for the show, that thereafter the three men should be used for all of the perfomance. That is correct, isn't it? Mr. ARCHER. Yes. Mr. MCCANN. It was that situation which resulted in Mr. Carroll going to Washington to testify with respect to this demand, wasn't it? Mr. ARCHER. May I add something right there? Mr. MCCANN. Yes; be glad for you to. Mr. ARCHER. In the meantime, he said that he couldn't pay that. I think you will find a letter in there. And they didn't want these extra three men. These men were never employed there. I think there is a letter there to that effect. But he got Mr. Klein. Mr. Klein came down to help him out. He went to Harry Long and he said, "I will tell you what we will do. We will just go status quo, as is, and it will be $100." They agreed to it. Mr. Long represented Mr. Carroll. Then at the end of the week we got the check and Harry Long came to me and said, "The boss paid it all." I said, "He didn't have to do that. You and Klein agreed they wouldn't have to pay $100 to the men.' He said, "Well, I know, but he did it anyhow." Mr. MCCANN. In other words, you mean that Earl Carroll, after you agreed that you would not demand these three men be put on, and that they should receive $100, rather than $120, that Earl Carroll voluntarily paid the $120? Mr. ARCHER. That is right. Mr. MCCANN. Now, isn't it a fact that when he paid the money that he protested paying it at all? Mr. ARCHER. Paid it under protest; sure. Mr MCCANN. He paid it under protest? Mr. ARCHER. Yes. Mr. MCCANN. Did you make any effort to return that money to him? Mr. ARCHER. Why, no. Mr. MCCANN. Now, then, you continued to keep the 15 men in the orchestra, playing the entire show, even though Mr. Carroll said he didn't want them? Mr. ARCHER. Certainly. He kept paying them. Mr. MCCANN. Who owns that show? Mr. ARCHER. Mr. Carroll. He kept paying them. Mr. MCCANN. Who has a right to choose employees? Mr. ARCHER. Well, they have always been there. Mr. MCCANN. Answer the question. Who has a right to choose the employees? Mr. ARCHER. Mr. Carroll. Mr. MCCANN. Then why should the union put three men in there he said he didn't want? Mr. ARCHER. Well, they have always been there. We had a rhumba band, too. Mr. MCCANN. They have always been there for a part of the time. And your union came in and forced him to allow these three men to stay there and play all the time, didn't they? Mr. ARCHER. They didn't force him to. Mr. MCCANN. When he suggested they should be put out, isn't it a fact, you said, "We will call a strike"? Mr. ARCHER. No, sir. He asked me-he said, "I will give notice to these five men," this last time-he says, "as of tomorrow.” That was the fifth day; given to me on a Saturday night. He says, "There will be no more. We have never seen these fellows. We have never employed them." Mr. MCCANN. All right. Mr. ARCHER. I said he says, "If I pay short will they go on strike?" I said that I couldn't tell him that. I said, "I will have to give the letter to the union and let them find out.” Mr. MCCANN. What did you do? Mr. ARCHER. I got hold of the union on Monday and showed them the letter. Mr. MCCANN. What did they say? Mr. ARCHER. Well, they said, "We got to straighten this thing out.” Mr. MCCANN. How did they straighten it out? Mr. ARCHER. I went there on a Tuesday night. I got in touch with the board and told them he wanted to let these fellows go without notice. There is a mutual agreement between all employers and the union Mr. MCCANN. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Had he ever hired them? Mr. ARCHER. Yes, sir. Mr. MCCANN. Wait a minute. You said that these three men stayed and worked without being employed by him; you put them on. Mr. ARCHER. They were never fired. Mr. MCCANN. He didn't employ them for the full service, did he? Mr. ARCHER. No; and they didn't play the full service. Mr. MCCANN. I thought you said a while ago they played through the thing. They came in the pit and played the entire show. Mr. ARCHER. They played for 1 week, that is all. Then they got in disagreement, Mr. Klein and Harry Long, and after that they didn't. Mr. MCCANN. They didn't play then after that? Mr. ARCHER. No. They played just the show; just what they were before, status quo. Mr. MCCANN. What was the reason for the strike of May 26? Mr. ARCHER. May 26 I went to Mr. Carroll. I said, "Mr. Carroll, you will have to give these fellows 2 weeks' notice." Mr. MCCANN. What was that 2 weeks' notice for? Mr. ARCHER. Well, simply-he was going to drop them without any notice at all. There is a mutual agreement between employers and all musicians Mr. MCCANN. Wait a minute. Have you got a contract with Mr. Carroll? Mr. ARCHER. The union has, I guess. Mr. MCCANN. Is it in writing? Mr. ARCHER. No. He has always had a contract for 2 weeks. Mr. MCCANN. I want to know if there has ever been a contract the union made with Mr. Carroll. Mr. ARCHER. I don't think he demanded one and they didn't demand one, either. Mr. MCCANN. You don't think he has ever demanded it? Mr. ARCHER. I don't think so; not to my knowledge. I am only the contractor. Mr. McCANN. There is no contract, either oral or in writing, except certain terms which have been Mr. ARCHER. There has always been an agreement. Mr. MCCANN. You say you demanded he give them a 2 weeks' notice. Go ahead. Mr. ARCHER. I said, "Mr. Carroll, you will have to give these gentlemen 2 weeks' notice. That is the way we operate." He says, "How can I give them 2 weeks? here." They have never been They have never been I said, "I know it is an unfortunate thing. hired or fired, but the men are still here." He said, "If I do that, all I have done is gone to Washington and Sacramento and it don't mean a thing." I said, "I am sorry. You will have to give them 2 weeks' notice." I said, "As individuals, if you don't, we will give you 2 weeks' notice, because we are upholding the rules of our organization, and we feel we don't want to give you service then." Mr. MCCANN. You told him unless he gave 2 weeks' notice and paid these people for 2 weeks that you then would give him 2 weeks' notice? Mr. ARCHER. No; I didn't. No; I didn't. Mr. MCCANN. You didn't tell him that? Mr. ARCHER. Wait a second. I will straighten that out for you. Mr. MCCANN. Let's have that straight. Mr. ARCHER. He came to me and he says, "If this hinges on the 2 weeks' notice-" Mr. Carroll didn't come to me, understand. EddieGale came to me. Eddie Gale says to me, "If this all hinges on the 2 weeks' notice, what happens after the 2 weeks?" I said, "After the 2 weeks, if you don't negotiate to keep these men on or do something about it, negotiate with the union, then we give you 2 weeks' notice as individual musicians, because you gave us 2 weeks for the fellows." Mr. MCCANN. Let's get that straight. In other words, you said, "You will have to give these men 2 weeks' notice, and at the end of the 2 weeks if you don't employ these men or make a satisfactory arrangement with the union Mr. ARCHER. Negotiate. Mr. MCCANN. "We will give you 2 weeks' notice and go out"? Mr. ARCHER. I said, "We will give you 2 weeks' notice." Mr. MCCANN. What you said is, "If you don't give us 2 weeks' pay without working Mr. ARCHER. These three fellows? Mr. MCCANN. These three men. Mr. ARCHER. That is right; I didn't say that. Mr. MCCANN. Isn't that what you said? Mr. ARCHER. I didn't say "without pay.' Mr. McCANN. What did you say? Mr. ARCHER. I said, "You will have to go down and negotiate-go down and talk." Mr. MCCANN. You said, "You will have to give them 2 weeks' notice"? Mr. ARCHER. Yes. Mr. MCCANN. And "pay them 2 weeks for not working"? Mr. ARCHER. Yes; give them 2 weeks' notice. Mr. MCCANN. At the end of that 2 weeks if he didn't make arrangements with the union, they were to come back and work and make some satisfactory arrangements with the union, in 2 weeks you would thereby serve 2 weeks' notice on him, on behalf of the men, that they didn't want to work for him? Mr. ARCHER. Yes. Mr. MCCANN. Do you want to work for him? Mr. ARCHER. Yes; all the 15 men do. Mr. MCCANN. Isn't it a fact you said, when you called that first strike, "The men don't want to work for Mr. Carroll"? Mr. ARCHER. That is right. If there is a rule violated, of your union, we don't want to work for him. Mr. MCCANN. You do want to work for him and you don't want to work for him? Mr. ARCHER. If a rule is violated, we don't want to work for him. Mr. MCCANN. What is the rule that was violated? Mr. ARCHER. Two weeks' notice. Mr. MCCANN. Where is that rule? Mr. MCCANN. Show me the rule. Mr. ARCHER. It is a mutual agreement. Mr. McCANN. No; you say the union has a rule. I want to see the rule. Mr. ARCHER. It has always been a rule. Mr. MCCANN. It has always been a rule? Mr. MCCANN. It is not in writing? Mr. ARCHER. That I couldn't say. I am only the representative for the union. Is it a bylaw of the Mr. MCCANN. You say the union has a rule. union? Is it in the constitution of the union? demand, "We have got to have 2 weeks' notice"? Mr. ARCHER. I think it is in the constitution or bylaws. He can look it up for you right there [indicating]. Mr. MCCANN. Would you mind giving me the constitution and bylaws? Mr. EMME. Do you want to see it? Mr. MCCANN. Yes, sir; I would like to see it. I am reading from article IV of the constitution and bylaws of the Musicians Mutual Protective Association, Local No. 47, A. F. of M., 1417 Georgia Street, Los Angeles 15, Calif. (b) To terminate any engagement of longer than 4 weeks, a 2 weeks' notice in writing must be given either by the employer or member concerned, such notice subject to the board of directors. All notices to terminate a steady engagement must be given before the opening performance on the first day of the week on which the engagement takes place. Any leader or other member discharging or attempting to, or conniving at the discharge of a member on an engagement of more than 4 weeks, or any member employed on such engagement terminating or attempting to, or conniving at the termination of his employment, unless for just cause or by mutual consent of the parties to said employment, but in every case with the consent of the board of directors, or trial board, shall be disciplined by the said board as provided in section 3, article VII, bylaws. I want to introduce that in evidence. Do you have any objection to that going in as an exhibit? Mr. EMME. No. Mr. MCCANN. Mr. Chairman, I would like to have the bylaws of this union, from which I have read, received in evidence for reference purposes as "Exhibit No. 1." Mr. KEARNS. No objection. Mr. MCCANN. There is no objection, so I will have it so marked. (The exhibit is on file with the committee.) Mr. MCCANN. Let us return to the first occasion. You say that on the 26th of May you did not call a strike? Or did you call a strike? Mr. ARCHER. That was not a strike. Mr. MCCANN. The individual men. the union downtown about that? Mr. ARCHER. I certainly did. That was the individual men. Mr. MCCANN. With whom did you consult? Mr. ARCHER. The board, board of directors. Mr. MCCANN. Whom did you consult with on the board? Mr. MCCANN. Mr. Paul is one. With whom else? Mr. ARCHER. That is all. Mr. MCCANN. Is that consulting with the board? Mr. MCCANN. What is it? Mr. ARCHER. He took it up with the board. |