Mr. MCCANN. What do you mean by that statement you just made? Mr. MACQUARRIE. Well, when I say sometimes, some of our members take a position, take a job as a leader, and they fail to pay the man off. I mean it might be something in that way, and we try to get the money for the boys. If they don't pay them, they are put on the suspended list. Mr. MCCANN. As a matter of fact, if Mr. Petrillo wanted to suspend anybody, he could suspend them, can't he? Mr. MACQUARRIE. That I don't know. Mr. MCCANN. You don't know? Mr. MACQUARRIE. No; I really don't know. Mr. MCCANN. Doesn't he have the power to suspend your charter here as a local? Mr. MACQUARRIE. That I couldn't say. I mean, I imagine that the incorporator would have the power. Mr. MCCANN. You know in the constitution of the union he is given the power to set aside the provisions of the constitution, don't you? Mr. MACQUARRIE. That is in the constitution, my understanding, but I mean I know nothing about that. That is an international matter. Mr. MCCANN. Here is another list on that same page: "Do not perform for or with," and there is a whole list of people. Tell me who are these people that you can't perform for or with? Mr. MACQUARRIE. Some of these people don't play even, and they call for our people to work with them. Some of them have been in controversies with our members as far as payment of money is concerned. Mr. MCCANN. Do you have any rules or regulations or bylaws governing your right to suspend and giving you authority to declare that someone should not perform for or with? Mr. MACQUARRIE. I believe it is all in there. Mr. MCCANN. Now, let's take the copy of the bylaws, and would you indicate what bylaws, what sections refer to your right to suspend from membership? Mr. MACQUARRIE. That would be page 41, I believe, or 40, either. Mr. MCCANN. Page 41. All right. Now, what other right of suspension is there in your constitution or bylaws? Mr. MACQUARRIE. Impose suspension and reinstatement. Mr. MCCANN. Those sections are all covered then in your bylaws? Mr. MACQUARRIE. Yes, sir. Mr. MCCANN. Tell me about this section "Don't perform for or with." Where is that covered in the constitution or bylaws? Mr. MACQUARRIE. I imagine that would be in the same general section. Mr. MCCANN. Your authority is covered by the little volume there? Mr. MACQUARRIE. Yes. Mr. McCANN. Then you have the title bookers. Mr. MACQUARRIE. That is right. Mr. MCCANN. That has all been provided for? Mr. MACQUARRIE. That is right. Mr. MCCANN. Do you observe that you have one there named Fishman? Mr. MACQUARRIE. That is right. Mr. MCCANN. I am going to show you a document which is a photostat of his license as a booker. Will you tell me what rights à man gets when he receives a license of that kind? Mr. MACQUARRIE. Well, I have never gone over this very thoroughly, because I don't handle the booking licenses, Mr. McCann, I really don't know. Mr. MCCANN. You do know that they issue licenses to bookers? Mr. MACQUARRIE. We issue franchises. I believe that is what their licenses say. Mr. MCCANN. That is a license from American Federation of Musicians, hereinafter called the federation, to Ed Fishman. Mr. MACQUARRIE. Yes, sir. Mr. MCCANN. And it is license No. 3557. Mr. MACQUARRIE. That is right. Mr. MCCANN. Down here on this line I notice that Mr. Ed Fishman is one of the bookers for whom your membership are told not to perform for or with. Mr. MACQUARRIE. That is right. Mr. MCCANN. Did you ever have any conversation with Mr. Fishman? Mr. MACQUARRIE. Yes; he has been up to our office several times. Mr. MCCANN. Did you ever tell him that if he did not release a certain band you would rescind his license? Mr. MACQUARRIE. No; I never did that way. The band in question, they wanted to get off the contract with Mr. Fishman, and there was a matter of $500 or $600 or something, and this particular orchestra leader said that if Mr. Fishman would rescind his license— that is, his managerial license with him-he would forget about the $500 or $600. That is the impression that I got. Mr. MCCANN. In other words, you were informed that Mr. Fishman owed this band $500 or $600 for services? Mr. MACQUARRIE. That is right, for moneys received some place along the line on a tour. Mr. MCCANN. Then you informed Mr. Fishman that if he would release that band-if he did not release that band that you would call in his license? Mr. MACQUARRIE. I can't remember very much of it. I can refresh my memory and get the file on that. Mr. MCCANN. Have you a file? Mr. MACQUARRIE. I think so; yes. Mr. MCCANN. Would you refresh your memory? We don't want to get in anything that is not right, and we want to give you an opportunity to get at the bottom of it. May we excuse him and let him look over his file for this information and call the next witness? Mr. KEARNS. I think that would be a fine idea. Mr. MCCANN. Will you take your file and go over it and try to get this picture, because I am going to call Mr. Fishman. If I don't get to him today I will a little later, and I want you to be able to tell us just what you know about this, Mr. MacQuarrie. Mr. Casey. TESTIMONY OF PAT CASEY, REPRESENTATIVE OF MOTION PICTURE PRODUCERS ASSOCIATION (The witness was duly sworn.) Mr. MCCANN. Will you please state your name? Mr. CASEY. Pat Casey. Mr. MCCANN. By whom are you employed and in what position? Mr. CASEY. I am employed by a committee representing the Motion Picture Producers Association. Mr. MCCANN. And how long have you held that position, sir? Mr. CASEY. Pretty near 20 years. Mr. MCCANN. What are your duties, Mr. Casey? Mr. CASEY. My duties are making contracts with different crafts in the motion-picture industry, settling different arguments and troubles. Mr. MCCANN. Do you have anything to do? Mr. CASEY. Not much. Mr. MCCANN. Would you mind telling the committee what, if any, information you have with respect to "featherbedding" in the industry? Mr. CASEY. Well, that is a question of what you call "featherbedding." In all of my experiences I have never made a deal with any craft whereby I agreed to what is known as a staff. They have tried to do it for 20 years, but I have never made such a deal. I make a deal to pay a man so many dollars for so many hours' work under certain conditions. I never agree to employ a certain number of men for any position. Mr. MCCANN. Have you ever had any experiences or any difficulties as the result of your work with respect to people being forced on you? Have you had anybody forced on you at all? Mr. CASEY. No, sir. Mr. MCCANN. Have you anything which will be helpful to this committee in arriving at a determination whether in this locality there are union leaders who force employers to take on people who do not render any service, or "featherbed?" Mr. CASEY. No; I have not. Mr. MCCANN. You have not had that experience? Mr. CASEY. No, sir. Mr. MCCANN. Your labor relations in the studios that you represent are perfectly satisfactory, then? Mr. CASEY. As good as they could be. In other words, in fact, for 20 years we went along and never had much trouble until the last couple of years. Mr. MCCANN. Tell us about the trouble the last couple of years. Mr. CASEY. About jurisdiction, my friend; never been any argument regarding money, wages, conditions, anything of the kind. It is simply a jurisdictional fight between international unions as to which shall do the work. Mr. MCCANN. Well, tell us about that. We would like to know what you know about the jurisdictional fight. Mr. CASEY. There has been a jurisdictional fight between the carpenters and the IATSE. Mr. MCCANN. Tell us about that? Mr. CASEY. As to who shall do certain work in the studios. Both of them claim the work. Mr. MCCANN. What effect is that having in the industry, sir? Mr. CASEY. Well, it has caused us a lot of trouble and cost a lot of money. Mr. MCCANN. Why is it costing you money, sir? Mr. CASEY. Because we have had to hire people probably that have not been as good mechanics as the ones that did do the work, and any time you have got a controversy between two groups of people in the studio and you are in the middle, my friend, you can't get away without it costing you plenty of money. Mr. MCCANN. Who are these two groups that have been having the controversy? Mr. CASEY. At the present time? Mr. MCCANN. Yes, sir. Mr. CASEY. The carpenters, painters, and several groups of the IATSE. Mr. MCCANN. Are they all American Federation of Labor? Mr. MCCANN. Every one of them is American Federation of Labor. Mr. MCCANN. Isn't there any possibility of getting those men together and getting them to agree on some program of determination which is reasonable? Mr. CASEY. I have tried to for 2 years, in conferences with Mr. Green, of the American Federation of Labor; and the executive board of the American Federation of Labor have had 20 meetings to my knowledge, but they have not decided. Furthermore, I would like to state to you now that I have been in this business over 50 years, and I know of no case of a jurisdictional dispute that the American Federation of Labor has ever settled. They have made certain decisions, but I want to find the fellow that has lived up to the decisions. Mr. MCCANN. Do you think that the Congress of the United States should pass some law settling some of these jurisdictional strikes? Mr. CASEY. I certainly do. Mr. MCCANN. You would favor that? Mr. CASEY. I certainly do. I think that is the only way they will ever be settled. Mr. MCCANN. Would you mind giving a thought to this committee so we can take it back for the benefit of the Congress? We have just passed a bill which may be vetoed or may be signed by the President this week, as you know, Mr. Casey. Mr. CASEY. I do, and I hope it will do some good. Mr. MCCANN. Regardless of whether it is signed or whether it is vetoed, there are bound to be some other labor problems that will exist in this country if it is signed or vetoed. I want you to tell us what you think the Congress ought to do to correct this situation. Mr. CASEY. I think that Congress should appoint an arbitration board and make everybody with a jurisdictional dispute take it to the arbitration board and have it settled, with power enough that they could force the people who have decisions rendered, that they must go along, and I don't think you can do it any other way on God's earth. Mr. McCANN. It has been whispered around, and sometimes not exactly whispered, that there are quite a few racketeers in this jurisdictional fight. Have you had any experience with that? Mr. CASEY. Yes; we had several years ago one little experience with racketeers, but I don't have that as far as I am concerned and as far as the major studios are concerned at the present time. Mr. MCCANN. It is just a jurisdictional dispute. Mr. CASEY. That is all, and it is a crime, because the poor devils that should be working and should be getting their living are kept out. They belong to unions. Take a carpenter, for instance, who is a member of the carpenters. He has got a lot of things except the weekly pay. He has got insurance, he has got large deductions, he has got a family, and everything else. That man tears up his card, and he has to find some place. Where is he going to land? And these people who have been in these studios for 25 or 30 years are the fellows that are out on the street walking around now. Mr. MCCANN. How has that happened? That is what I want to know. Mr. CASEY. Because, as I say here, Mr. Hutchinson, of the carpenters, and Mr. Walsh, of the IÄTSE, both wanted the work for their men. Mr. MCCANN. Didn't Mr. Green decide that the carpenters were entitled to certain of that work? Mr. CASEY. Mr. Green has made several, if you will let me say it, left-handed decisions that nobody can enforce, and I want to find somebody who can give me any decision that has been made by Mr. Green or by the executive board or the committee that they appointed. Mr. MCCANN. In other words, the real meat of your experience now has been presented, and that is that there are thousands of good men out of work at the studios, men with 25 years' experience, who are walking the street because there is jurisdictional dispute. Mr. CASEY. That is correct, and I wish to God we could get them back to the studios. It is a crime. Mr. MCCANN. You have people with less qualifications and who can't do the work in there instead; is that it? Mr. CASEY. I don't know about that, because I have nothing to do with it, but my personal opinion is "Yes." Mr. MCCANN. No further questions, Mr. Chairman. Mr. KEARNS. Mr. Casey, I happened to be down in Newark, N. J., where there was $50,000,000 worth of construction work stopped in a union squabble. The argument there was that the carpenters wanted to remove the forms. Mr. CASEY. That is right. Mr. KEARNS. And the hod carriers' union wanted the laborers to do it. Mr. CASEY. That is right. Mr. KEARNS. The carpenters contended if they were going to reuse the forms it was the carpenters' job to do it, but if they were not going to reuse them they didn't care whether the laborers did it or not. Do you have that same situation? Mr. CASEY. The same identical condition, practically-may not be in forms and things like that, but in other things. Mr. KEARNS. That has been going on there now since January 25, and I think it has not been settled yet. Do you remember reading on, January 2, where Mr. Truman was informed that there would not be any stoppage in the building business? I think that is the correct date of the release. |